FOSSDLE PieFedlemm.ee is shutting down at the end of this month
FrostyTrichscross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/65824884
Hey everyone
We’re really sorry to say this, but lemm.ee will be shutting down on June 30, 2025.
What you need to know
As of now:
- New user registrations are disabled
- Creating new communities is disabled
What you should do:
- You can export your settings at https://lemm.ee/settings to take them with you to another instance.
- If you're moving to another instance, consider adding a note to your lemm.ee profile with your new username. Your old profile will still be visible from other instances even after we go offline.
- Alternatively, if you want to delete your lemm.ee profile, now is the best time to do it, so the deletion can federate out before we go offline.
- If you're one of the folks supporting us with a recurring donation, please remember to cancel it (Ko-Fi donations should have been cancelled automatically already). Our leftover funds are already enough to cover our bills for next month, so we can keep things running without any more support.
Because of how Lemmy is built, everything posted on lemm.ee will still be accessible from other instances, even after we go offline.
Why this is happening
The key reason is that we just don’t have enough people on the admin team to keep the place running. Most of the admin team has stepped down, mostly due to burnout, and finding replacements hasn’t worked out.
The sad reality is that while there are a lot of great people on Lemmy, there are also some who use the platform to attack others, stir up conflict, or actively try to undermine the project. Admins are volunteers who deal with the latter group on a constant basis, this takes a mental toll. Please understand why our admins chose to step down, and be kind to the admins on whatever instance you decide to join.
We know this sucks. We're genuinely sorry it’s ending like this. Thank you to everyone who spent time here and helped make it better.
– lemm.ee team
Comments are disabled.
The OP has comments disabled and it didn't seem right to not say thank you and goodbye.
To the entire team past and present at lemm.ee- Thank you for the time and resources you poured into this platform. You will undoubtedly be missed.
why are comments even disabled in the first place?
... They are literally saying they don't have admins/mods enough. You want to strain your mods? Allowing comments on that sort of post is how you do that.
it could have been a cool free 4 all like in the good old internet times xD
Yeah sure its all fun and games until people start posting csam.
He said he's fine with csam on lemmy, as it will be voted away
Deleted by moderator
then block them with your user power. i dont see the problem?
The problem, besides that just being gross, is that hosting csam is a very serious crime in most places. Leaving that unmoderated can very easily end with alphabet agencies from around the world shutting down lemmy instances.
CSAM stands for Child Sexual Abuse Material (child porn under its old moniker).
I'm going to assume you didn't know what the acronym meant because saying "just block them I don't see the problem" to CSAM posts is very idiotic.
Yes officer, this one right here.
Deleted by moderator
Was it?
Probably because if they were enabled it would be filled with people soapboxing about their irrelevant hobbyhorses or offering to help just to keep the instance alive. Neither are useful or relevant. If people wanted the instance to survive then they should have been volunteering months ago, not at 11:59 on the Doomsday Clock.
The sad thing is that nobody knew there was a doomsday clock.
There always is. No one is getting paid to do this, they're giving up their free time and (often) money. Leaving it to the last minute to volunteer or donate is never sustainable long-term. If people really care so much and are willing to sacrifice either, they need to be proactive rather than wait for emergency pleas for help.
On the other hand, as far as I can tell, they only called for new admins/mods 4 months ago and not since then. I agree that if you care about something, you should support it and not wait until they cry for help, but there is also a matter of being proactive and transparent about how volunteer recruitment is going (well or badly).
Completely. This feels like a major communications fail. It's a basic technique of fundraising and mobilization: put a big ticking clock on your campaign and people will step up in time.
its probably because its just an important announcement post they plan to pin for the whole month and they dont want it to get filled with people talking in it which could led to the comment derailing the discussion
❤️
Holy shit, that was unexpected.
It really wasn't, sadly.
The site founder put in an incredible amount of work setting the place up (something like 10 support servers at US$200/mo), but also tried to be lead admin for a year+, and that's typically an extremely tough double-job to do well on a big, popular site / place. In his various posts he sometimes talked about all the vile content and destructive users the sub-admins had to deal with on an ongoing basis, and it certainly sounds like that burned out the whole volunteer staff in the end.
From my own POV, and something I noticed from the beginning here, is that in the wake of Reddit (and other places) treating its users as assets, it was important to grow a userbase across the Lemmysphere and Fediverse with a strong community spirit. To me that means more participation, more content-creation, and more willingness to be civil and cooperate. Not that these things didn't happen to a significant extent, but it seems like a lot of .ee users and visitors, while willing to hang out at the place, were moreso just willing to soak up the content without putting in much effort to help make the place work. Or even just being toxic and destructive, as above.
A lot more could be said and debated about the whole situation, but sites like Reddit, as draconian as they might be at times, and whatever their other flaws, have proven that they've been able to establish a system that works stably over the long haul.
Me, I love the idea of the FV, and for that very reason have put in almost two years of hard work in to my own project on .ee, but I'm very unsure about the long-term healthy function of the Lemmysphere in particular. More specifically, trying to migrate my project to another instance before .ee shuts down would be a herculean task AFAIK, especially with my having significant new health issues recently.
So, yeah. :/
I can help with that, if needed. I'm going to have to migrate my own communities in the coming weeks, so I can help with yours too.
@https://lemm.ee/u/mjhelto
Thanks, fellas! I guess the first need would certainly be to fully archive the community in question, i.e.: https://lemm.ee/c/eurographicnovels.
Yes, I understand it's already and naturally backed up across the FV as a whole, but I would think that having direct backups would help for any number of reasons, especially when it came to running a new sub somewhere, being able to edit previous content as needed.
As part of that, backing up the community's many images specifically hosted at .ee would be another priority I should think.
Also, just want to point out that the community is indeed archived at Archive.Org, but last I checked, that tends to only preserve the post / comment text.
Anyway, that's for starters. Me, I have absolutely no idea at the moment if I'm going to be able to help run the place after migration, but at the very least I can hopefully find someone willing to do that. Anyway, I guess that's good for starters!
Also, have a look at this post: https://piefed.social/post/667044
Hm, if you need to migrate all of the content to a new community, that might require quite some work indeed.
What about gradually moving content over? https://lemmy.world/c/moviesandtv@lemmy.film content is still there, and lemmy.film went down more than a year ago
Hmm. Yeah, if anyone's posted images there to the pict-rs instance on lemm.ee, those will presumably be going down too.
checks
Yeah, like, you just posted this image yesterday. Like, post text federates, but other instances won't have copies of the images.
EDIT: Normally, though, people are going to be posting to pict-rs on their home instance, so it's just users on lemm.ee who are going to have the problem; images posted by people elsewhere should stay up.
how'd the migration work?
Have a look at this post: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/45876780
Sad to hear of your problems, but thank you for the time you did put into it! Nothing lasts forever but that doesn't mean it wasn't worthwhile.
I think people really underestimate how much work it is to maintain a community online. It's something that is so outside of my skillset and capabilities that I feel awe when I see it done successfully.
Blaming the community for that is not fair. It takes only a few rotten fruit to spoil the whole basket. Even if 99% of your userbase are model netizens who are supportive and only make positive contributions, the whole system can be brought down by a few dedicate trolls/losers.
We need to build effective filtering mechanisms to get rid of abuse/spam and we need to maybe bring back the idea of Web of Trust. It's too easy to create an account and start polluting the fediverse.
I'm not blaming the community. Things are what they are, including human behavior.
What I did was to state what I think is and was necessary for the FV to survive robustly in the long term, and in my opinion it just wasn't happening adequately, at least for .ee, and maybe it's a problem for the FV as a whole, too. You'd have to see what other major instance admins had to say, I guess...
We can not change "human behavior", so I don't see how/why we should expect things to "be different at .ee" compared to anywhere else.
Unfortunately, that's not what I'm talking about, either.
What I'm talking about is something like a sufficient, critical mass needed to help .ee (and any other place) survive in the long run. Two years ago I thought there was a real opportunity and possibility based on what the Reddit execs were publicly doing... how many users it both pissed off and motivated. That in turn brought about a burst of user energy, directly reflected by the significant migration to FV, which of course included participation, and at best, valuable content-creation, curation, useful posts & comments, and responsible moderation. That was a significant, known movement, and IMO a positive one, even if it wasn't going to last indefinitely.
As a personal example of a 'motivated user,' I saw the need for a certain community which was nowhere-else present across the FV, and decided to create it. Over the past two years I've populated it with 400+ posts, most of them in the form of mini-articles. Other people also chipped in here and there, and there have been healthy comments and subscribers to sort of flesh the whole thing out over time.
For the most part it's been a fun (if sometimes extremely frustrating) little hobby, but it's still basically a one-man show, despite almost 2yrs and 1,210 subscribed accts. Point is-- at the end of the day it's been a small project that I thought worth maintaining as both a thank you to .ee and a tribute to the FV as a whole. Lemm.ee didn't necessarily need that kind of contribution from more than a handful of users, but as said above, it needed a certain critical mass to make it work across the server as a whole, and a minimum of posters contributing vile content or simply being disruptive assholes.
At one time I thought community spirit (for what that's worth) would kind of tilt things in a long-term sustainable direction. But it seems I was mistaken, and thus we have the announcement today. IMO I'm not pointing fingers; I'm observing.
Niche topics were always going to be dependent on numbers.
I'm the single contributor to !lego@lemm.ee , one of the most popular toys on the planet. And I didn't expect another regular poster to appear before we reached 60k monthly active users.
"Build it, and they will come" isn't really true nowadays. We're competing with Reddit, but also TikTok and Discord, where people seem to spend most of their time.
Community is not enough. I wrote that in 2022 with Twitter and Mastodon in mind, but the same principle still applies for Reddit vs Lemmy.
Lots of people say they want to "stick it to the man" but very few are actually going to put in the work and/or money required to actually succeed.
Yeah, every time there is a post on the topic, moderators say that the tools they have are insufficient.
It'd be great to have some community focus on that going forward, whether through direct Lemmy changes or creating better bot mod tools. I'm not in a position to contribute right now but maybe in a few months.
There is a subset of Lemmy that absolutely hates any idea of automod tools because it reminds them too much of issues they had with Reddit. But as Lemmy grows (and given it's volunteer nature) it feels inescapable at some point.
they mostly fester in any community that has political discussion in it.
I'm sorry to hear about your health issues. I don't know shit about dick, but if there's some way a 10 yr sysadmin could do to help out, please let me help! I'm a big hoarder of data and don't believe information should be gatekept or lost if it can be saved.
For posterity's sake, please don't abandon hope in keeping your labor of love alive!
Thanks for the offer and kind words! I've tagged you in the comment above...
When I looked through the list of lemm.ee communities I was subbed to, my first thought was: omg I hope JohnnyEnzyme takes this ok...
¡Hola, compa!
Yes I'm bummed, but we'll see what happens. Blaze has offered some help, and linked some kind of 'PieFed migration project,' above.
At this moment I'd say that even if a migration *is* possible, there's a very strong chance that EGN+ will need a new mod(s) to run the place. Aside from that, and if my health picks up, I'd be happy to keep contributing content, and maybe help out here and there.
I'll probably be posting that message to the community soon, but am mentioning it to you first, and for anyone else reading. =)
I guess it's not really surprising, though. The Lemmy userbase is much smaller and very skewed towards certain types of people with extremely strong opinions and low levels of tolerance for anything that goes against their worldview. I don't think reddit is necessarily doing anything better in that regard, it just benefits from having such a massive userbase filled with all kinds of people. The toxicity and off-topic intrusions of political/culture war stuff get drowned out over there, whereas here you'll frequently see threads where 90% of the comments are arguing about things that are completely irrelevant to the actual topic because so much of userbase has an activist mindset that is always itching for a fight.
I'd say the big, honking difference with Reddit is that there's a team of paid admins and staff to handle so much of the chores and unsavory occurrences that the volunteer admins & mods on the Lemmysphere have to do on their own. Also, their software is years ahead, and I strongly suspect has many more out-of-the-box tools than Lemmy has on the admin side. It's certainly that way for the mod side, I can attest.
Reddit was known for years to leave the moderation tasks to the volunteers admins. I'm still a mod in a quite active sub, the mod queue is around 2600 items now.
We hav sub mods here too. The difference is the admins
reddit has admins, AI moderations, aggressive filters, and COMPLIcit mods in many subs to do the policing.
the auto-removal and auto-bans take much pressure off of reddit admins and mods, regardless if you were in violation of policies or not.
Yup, good point.
That's true, I guess I was commenting more on the differences between the userbases. I'm not sure much can really be done about that in the short term. Lemmy is this way because it is small and is a sort of counterculture protest against mainstream social media. Until it grows and evolves out of that framing, its userbase will continue to look very different to reddit's.
i think lemmy is skewed, because the people that got banned from reddit for expressing such trollish/spammy , or propaganda(like conservatives and ml and hexbeared) come here thats why there are such strong opinion.
and theres the recent arrivals: from reddits indiscriminate bannings.
I think somebody shoukd do an academic study on Lemmy, how it differs from Reddit, its weaknesses, and why it might be failing. So that there is a definitive cause to its weakness that can be pointed to for anyone willing to give it another shot.
Secondly, I think it might be a good idea for the admins of the servers to have a video call. This will make the (at least admin) community feel much more personal in a way that comment threads cannot and will lead to a stronger sense of community. Actually I'm impressed that Lemmy as a project has made it this far without the developers having ever been able to plan the project together in a group.
How is this failing? If lemm.ee was a traditional forum it'd be over, but because of federation everything lives on.
Perhaps I wasn't paying appropriate attention but it also seemed unexpected to me. Everywhere has a background level of "we want more mods and admins" so it gets easy to ignore, and it feels like we've gone straight from there to "right we're shutting down now" without an intermediate "we're really struggling here folk and may have to consider shutting down if it doesn't improve".
Yeah, fair point!
Still, as has been commented in this thread, Lemm.ee indeed called for admins at some point in order to help out, but evidently got an underwhelming response. Perhaps part of that due to the fact that Sunaurus & Ella stating right up front that it was a thankless type of job.
the problem is the people who have trolled, spammed on reddit with right wing propaganda/ or pro-israeli also fled to lemmy causing problems here too. reddit now is just overmoderating to the point its not usable for most people now. reddit used to be a good place to go to, but they have been banning people so easily now, you cant even create a account without getting shadowbanned for some people.
Yea, I'm really surprised as well. Was there any build up to this? Any calls for help?
Yes, actually. I probably could have stepped up to be an admin, but tbh, my plate is already overfull.
Link? Just out of curiosity.
https://lemmy.ca/post/37365128
That's four months ago. Unfortunate that they didn't call for more urgent help after that. But I suppose it's too late now.
I always just assume there are hella ppl clamoring to do it and I wouldnt be picked
I messaged sunaurus a year ago about potentially being a mod, and he told me it'd be difficult and I ended up chickening out. Now I wish I had stepped up also
a comment tree with the same confusion as you (and me lol) https://lemm.ee/comment/20911153
Lemm.ee is recruiting new admins!, from four months ago.
What a loss. =(
It's a strange quirk of lemmy that we will continue to be able to see content from lemm.ee even after they've shut down. It'll feel like seeing ghosts.
A lot of the internet has been lost to time already so I actually appreciate this place having this kind of permanence.
Deleted by moderator
Your correct. Lemm.ee’s ghosts will only live on in the instances around during it’s life.
Kind of like humans after they die. You still live on in the memories of those who knew you.
It doesn't have to be that way.
Check FEP-ef61.
https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/ef61/fep-ef61.md
I get blocked from these links I dunno why. It’s very frustrating.
Interesting, what browser are you using?
Anyway, its written in markdown.
The contents of FEP-ef61.
FEP-ef61: Portable Objects
Summary
Portable [ActivityPub][ActivityPub] objects with server-independent IDs.
Motivation
Usage of HTTP(S) URLs as identifiers has a major drawback: when the server disappears, everyone who uses it loses their identities and data.
The proposed solution should satisfy the following constraints:
History
Nomadic identity mechanism makes identity independent from a server and was originally part of the Zot federation protocol.
Streams (2021) made nomadic accounts available via the Nomad protocol, which supported ActivityStreams serialisation.
FEP-c390 (2022) introduced a decentralized identity solution compatible with ActivityPub. It enabled permissionless migration of followers between servers, but didn't provide full data portability.
Requirements
The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC-2119][RFC-2119].
Identifiers
An [ActivityPub][ActivityPub] object can be made portable by using an identifier that is not tied to a single server. This proposal describes a new identifier type that has this property and is compatible with the [ActivityPub] specification.
ap:// URLs
ap://URL is constructed according to the [URI][RFC-3986] specification, but with a [Decentralized Identifier][DID] in place of the authority:text ap://did:example:123456/path/to/object?name=value#fragment-id \_/ \________________/ \____________/ \________/ \_________/ | | | | | scheme authority path query fragmentap.DID methods
Implementers MUST support the [did:key] method. Other DID methods SHOULD NOT be used, as it might hinder interoperability.
DID documents SHOULD contain Ed25519 public keys represented as verification methods with
Multikeytype (as defined in the [Controlled Identifiers][Multikey] specification).Any [DID URL][DID-URL] capabilities of a DID method MUST be ignored when working with
ap://URLs.Dereferencing ap:// URLs
To dereference an
ap://URL, the client MUST make HTTP GET request to a gateway endpoint at [well-known] location/.well-known/apgateway. Theap://prefix MUST be removed from the URL and the rest of it appened to a gateway URL. The client MUST specify anAcceptheader with theapplication/ld+json; profile="https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams"media type.Example of a request to a gateway:
GET https://social.example/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6MkrJVnaZkeFzdQyMZu1cgjg7k1pZZ6pvBQ7XJPt4swbTQ2/path/to/objectActivityPub objects identified by
ap://URLs can be stored on multiple servers simultaneously.If object identified by
ap://URL is stored on the server, it MUST return a response with status200 OKcontaining the requested object. The value of aContent-Typeheader MUST beapplication/ld+json; profile="https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams".If object identified by
ap://URL is not stored on the server, it MUST return404 Not Found.If object is not public, the server MUST return
404 Not Foundunless the request has a HTTP signature and the signer is allowed to view the object.Authentication and authorization
Authentication and authorization are performed in accordance with [FEP-fe34] origin-based security model.
The [origin][RFC-6454] of an
ap://URL is computed by the following algorithm:uri-schemebe theapstring.uri-hostbe the authority component of the URL.uri-portbe the number 0.(uri-scheme, uri-host, uri-port).And the origin of a [DID URL][DID-URL] is computed by the following algorithm:
uri-schemebe theapstring.uri-hostbe the DID component of the DID URL.uri-portbe the number 0.(uri-scheme, uri-host, uri-port).Actors, activities and objects identified by
ap://URLs MUST contain [FEP-8b32] integrity proofs. Collections identified byap://URLs MAY contain integrity proofs. If collection doesn't contain an integrity proof, another authentication method MUST be used.The value of
verificationMethodproperty of the proof MUST be a [DID URL][DID-URL] where the DID matches the authority component of theap://URL.Portable actors
One identity (represented by [DID]) can control multiple actors (which are differentiated by the path component of an
ap://URL).An actor object identified by
ap://URL MUST have agatewaysproperty containing an ordered list of gateways where the latest version of that actor object can be retrieved. Each item in the list MUST be an HTTP(S) URL with empty path, query and fragment components. The list MUST contain at least one item.Gateways are expected to be the same for all actors under a DID authority and MAY be also specified in the DID document as [services][DID-Services].
Example:
json { "@context": [ "https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams", "https://w3id.org/security/data-integrity/v1", "https://w3id.org/fep/ef61" ], "type": "Person", "id": "ap://did:key:z6MkrJVnaZkeFzdQyMZu1cgjg7k1pZZ6pvBQ7XJPt4swbTQ2/actor", "inbox": "ap://did:key:z6MkrJVnaZkeFzdQyMZu1cgjg7k1pZZ6pvBQ7XJPt4swbTQ2/actor/inbox", "outbox": "ap://did:key:z6MkrJVnaZkeFzdQyMZu1cgjg7k1pZZ6pvBQ7XJPt4swbTQ2/actor/outbox", "gateways": [ "https://server1.example", "https://server2.example" ], "proof": { "type": "DataIntegrityProof", "cryptosuite": "eddsa-jcs-2022", "created": "2023-02-24T23:36:38Z", "verificationMethod": "did:key:z6MkrJVnaZkeFzdQyMZu1cgjg7k1pZZ6pvBQ7XJPt4swbTQ2#z6MkrJVnaZkeFzdQyMZu1cgjg7k1pZZ6pvBQ7XJPt4swbTQ2", "proofPurpose": "assertionMethod", "proofValue": "..." } }Location hints
When ActivityPub object containing a reference to another actor is being constructed, implementations SHOULD provide a list of gateways where specified actor object can be retrieved. This list MAY be provided using the
gatewaysquery parameter. Each gateway address MUST be URL-endcoded, and if multiple addresses are present they MUST be separated by commas.Example:
ap://did:key:z6MkrJVnaZkeFzdQyMZu1cgjg7k1pZZ6pvBQ7XJPt4swbTQ2/actor?gateways=https%3A%2F%2Fserver1.example,https%3A%2F%2Fserver2.exampleThis URL indicates that object can be retrieved from two gateways:
https://server1.examplehttps://server2.exampleImplementations MUST discard query parameters when comparing
ap://identifiers and treat identifiers with different query parameter values as equal.Inboxes and outboxes
Servers and clients MUST use gateways to deliver activities to inboxes or outboxes. Servers specified in the
gatewaysproperty of an actor object MUST accept POST requests to respective gateway URLs.Example:
POST https://social.example/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6MkrJVnaZkeFzdQyMZu1cgjg7k1pZZ6pvBQ7XJPt4swbTQ2/actor/inboxDelivered activities might be not portable. If delivered activity is portable (has
ap://identifier), the server MUST verify its [FEP-8b32] integrity proof. If the server does not accept deliveries on behalf of an actor, it MUST return405 Method Not Allowed.ActivityPub clients MAY follow [FEP-ae97][FEP-ae97] to publish activities. In this case
@The_Picard_Maneuver @FrostyTrichs I think this is a common attribute of the fediverse in general. Once a post has propagated to other sites, the non-existence of the originating site is not going to remove that post, but in some cases posts may contain references to images on the original site and the site that it propagated to may elect to reference images from the original site rather than store them locally. In that case, the new site will have the post but not images that it contained.
This is sort of unfortunate, but as long as the fediverse remains genuinely decentralized, I expect it's just going to be a fact of life. Instances are going to come and go, alternately riding in on waves of determination and enthusiasm and out in sluggish streams of burnout and ennui.
And in a way, I think it's arguably even a good thing, or at least not a bad one. The basic structure of the fediverse prevents centralization through ownership, but there's still a risk of individual instances gaining enough clout to effectively act as a centralizing force. Not that Lemm.ee was in that position or even headed that way, but still, broadly I think that the understanding that instances are likely ephemeral — that they come and they go, and much more to the point that that's as it should be — is an important one.
And it neatly illustrates a large part of the reason that I have at least a dozen or so accounts scattered around the fediverse, including, for a little while longer, this one.
It's important now that we don't all move to lemmy.world we want many smaller instances, not one really big one.
PS. Checkout PieFed, it's much more feature rich compared to lemmy, and has better mod tools.
Piefed is very centralized as of now, and while it is small overall, we'll see how it goes with the new instances.
How?
We have multiple piefed instances and they all interact with lemmy.
Last time I checked there were two, and realistically only piefed.social had any userbase. Is it not relevant anymore?
Because of federation, that doesn't matter.
I suspect there is wisdom to be learned from forest management, specifically how regular, small controlled burns are how you avoid huge, unmanageable forest fires.
@WatDabney @FrostyTrichs I started my friendica instance after facebook banned me for pointing out issues with the Covid-19 vax, then I started my mastodon instance after twatter did the same prior to Elon's ownership. I've had some hardware issues along the way but we've got those straightened out. There seems to be the this false assumption on many peoples part that fediverse instances should be echo chambers like the old facebook and twitter were. I think it's healthy for opposing viewpoints to be expressed, but I believe it is unhealthy to allow to degrade to ad hominem attacks, I run my sites accordingly, others don't feel this way they prefer an echo chamber and there are instances that accommodate those folks well, and to me this is the beauty of the fediverse. I personally prefer long format posting because I don't believe short format provides the opportunity for the depth of discussion needed to explore opposing view, historical perspective, cause and effect elaboration, etc, which is, of my nodes I spend most of my time on friendica. Friendica is however not efficient, it takes a lot of hardware resources to run it efficiently.
Yeah, that way the community can get inoculated with these ideas and learns how to respond to them, and over enough time the response gets faster and more efficient so that the body as a whole builds up a resistance against whenever those types of comments show up.
This is why we don't need vaccines.
We just need gradual exposure to a lesser form of bullshit, so we can develop immunity to the greater whole of bullshit!
/s
Vaccine skepticism is not a "healthy viewpoint", but quite the opposite. Vaccines and inoculations are about as much "proven science" as we have, with hundreds of years behind the science. Spreading anti-vaxxer propaganda kills people.
Vaccines are a good example here. Handwashing is another. We've had empirical proof on the latter since the 1850s, but it's STILL super hit or miss whether people will bother :(
Antivaxxers are traitors to their species.
This right here is why you should stay in school.
If only you could dedicate as much effort into understanding basic science.
alot of people came here from the recent reddit ban waves, which correlated with the large jump in users on .ee, unfortunately, it also includes people that were banned for spreading rw propaganda, israeli talking points, general trolls. legitmate users were also part of those bans.
@Ledericas Unfortunately, this is often how it goes. The fact that I got some 30 or so dislikes and two SYN flood DoS attacks for simply offering my services I guess illustrates the make up of the crowd. Ah well, they will all relocate somewhere and life will go on.
For lemm.ee users who will be migrating to new instances: You can export your subscriptions and blocks to import them to your new instance! You can export that info in your profile settings panel, and import it from the same page on your new instance.
yep, if you're a lemm.ee user then your Export button will be here: https://lemm.ee/settings
the bottom of the right column
Also PieFed can import those exports that Lemmy makes.
so you have to create a new account as well, when you join said instance.
Yes you'll have to create a new account somewhere else, so that you can import settings
i just created on another instances, 2 im waiting for approval.
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After checking just now, it appears that it does! :D
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I was sure it wouldn't but it sure does!
Doesn't work for piefed though it seems. Or I just don't know where to find it :D
Thank God I don't have to reblock all the furry communities.
all the kink porns/furry porn yea, i had to block alot of nsfw, and a whol host of users i blocked
it seems that this will save your subscriptions list and some other settings but not your list of blocked communities. at least, it hasn't worked like that for me.
edit - disregard! they showed up after a while.
also, you need to save your avatar pic and re-upload.
I actually decided it's fine, I'll just reblock all the annoying things. Never had an avatar, never will prolly
Huh. One of the least expected instances I thought would shut down :(
Right? Where will I go? What will I do?
I figured it's all federated and I can block and find tune regardless, so I just hopped over to .world. Literally took 2 minutes, so that was nice at least. But sad to see it go. It was my home for two years and it was perfect for what I needed :/
Sad to see it go, one of the biggest instances. But I totally get it from the admins' point of views.
Ahh, this is really sad. Lemm.ee was always an instance that shined brightly, and @sunaurus@lemm.ee has helped me out a couple of times.
Sad day indeed.
This instance will live on. Definitely understand the burnout and hope @sunaurus@lemm.ee and the other volunteers here stick around.
I literally just woke up and opened Lemmy to see this. As a lemm.ee user this is sad news but I respect the decision of all those involved as they navigate this
same
Sail into the sunset lemm.ee
You will be missed
Definitely
Really nice that they're doing a sunset period with advance warning instead of just randomly going dark. As Lemmy's first major "shutdown" we need to accept that this sort of thing seems inevitable from time to time, maybe this can set an example and open a conversation on how to handle this sort of situation in the future. I'd hope this creates some pressure to Fediverse developers to improve portability for users (and communities!) moving between instances, maybe even some kind of immigration/emigration mode for people or communities who want to apply to transfer their account and history rather than simply sign up a new account while posting a link from their old account. Federation should be able to do better than that.
It reminds me of DMV.social's shutdown, and for similar reasons (admin feeling overwhelmed). I don't recall how big that one was though.
Piefed currently allows community transfers!
and they don't support voyager
Voyager doesn't support them
Mastodon handles it pretty decently where it automatically gets your followers to follow your new account, there's no reason why communities/groups couldn't do the same thing
Individual users' follows are not very useful in the threadiverse compared to backlog of content.
The historical backlog isn't going anywhere. It will still be viewable on other instances.
For example here's an old thread from a community on vlemmy.net, an instance that disappeared more than a year ago.
https://thelemmy.club/post/147822?scrollToComments=true
Yes, but people can no longer engage with that content. It creates the appearance of relatively dead communities.
Yeah and that kinda looks bad at first glance. Just clicking on what seems like the biggest community (most subscribers) and seeing that it’s actually dead (instance went down or the community was migrated elsewhere).
feddit.de disappeared a while back. As did the original UK one. (Both have been replaced)
Was there an original uk one? This one is the only one I'm aware of, it had a moment of doubt a year back but we got new admins before we needed to move.
Wow. This is by far the biggest loss I’ve ever witnessed on lemmy.
I totally understand it. It’s a shame it has to happen. Sending much love to the lemm.ee admins.
Also, generally, lemmy can feel very gloomy, there are a lot of fights and stuff as well. I know we can’t prevent this. But whatabout fostering a slightly less cynical culture? Lets compliment more, be slightly less snarky in our replies. Don’t only comment to criticise. Also comment to praise when you see something you like. :)
It's possible that lemm.ee grew too fast for its own good. Also possible that it lacked an "identity" as it was very general purpose. Certain instances attract users that behave better. Perhaps lemm.ee did not (no shade on anyone, just speculating).
I've certainly seen some toxic .ee users which jives with your theory.
I think a big part of it is because they defeded basically no one. Made it a great instance for modding from but also great for being an alt for people in undesirable instances.
allowed to many ml and hexbear to show up in ee feeds, im not surprised. .world has some questionable people too.
The rare time I venture to reddit to talk about Lemmy I saw lemm.ee posted the most.
We get trolled a lot, that's mostly what you're seeing. They seem to be off schedule lately or the admins are handling them better, not sure which. I agree with being better commenters though, it would help the atmosphere.
That's just what critical discourse looks like. If people agreed on everything, we wouldn't need these discussions to begin with.
I don't think it has to be like that. We can discuss things while still being positive. Ideally discussions aren't about disagreements only, but understanding, seeing things from other's perspective, finding middle grounds and so on.
I agree on principal, but in reality it would feel like chatting to tech support or chatgpt.
Besides, bitter sweet, the bitter makes to sweet so much more sweeter.
It was the first foray into the fediverse and helped wean me off reddit. Sad to see it go.
“It was the first foray”.
It’s a great concept. This should inspire others. Things can change and get better and grow.
My first foray. Typo. But the sentiment still stands.
My 2nd cake day was going to be a few days after shutdown :(
Lemm.ee was a fantastic instance, it will be greatly missed. Huge thanks to the admins and owner that made it happen for so long.
A shame the communities will be lost in the transition, the movies/television communities are genuinely cursed. This is the 4th or 5th time people moved that community.
I guess now would be a good time to give Piefed another shot. I love Lemmy and all, but new features have stalled for too long and I'm ready for some change.
So long, lemm.ee
It's okay, it's routine now
the great movies/television migration starts again
Posted a meta poll on !movies@lemm.ee, same for !television@lemm.ee
thanks for letting me know
What are some good mobile clients for piefed?
Thunder is coming, but for now only Interstellar is official iirc (last I saw Thunder support was only available as a fork of the code).
The web interface is great though.
Interstellar - https://interstellar.jwr.one/
We are currently preparing the 1.0 release which will have lots of major new features, such as private communities, multi-communities and much more. Although 0.19 is also getting constant updates with smaller improvements, for example 0.19.11.
Yeah hope ppl remake them quickly
Very sad to see lemm.ee shutting down. I liked it here, the instance was easy to pronounce. Good luck lemm.ee admins with your future endeavors.
Well that was super painless. Downloaded my .json settings, imported, and it's like nothing even happened. All sublemmy communities I was subscribed to before have migrated successfully.
Although defederations are an issue. Sopuli for instance blocks both Hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml - which imho is very much a good thing.:-)
Lemmy probably needs support for different levels of permissions, like Discord has, and PieFed has this too (but I don't think it's as in-depth as Discord yet)
Relevant issue: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/3375
It seems like nutomic is in favor of this idea. He stated that he wanted to implement such a thing in the future when most bug fixing is done. So we definitely could see this during the v1.x.x releases: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/pull/3303#issuecomment-1607459130
Dang it! Lemm.ee was formed in summer 2023 alongside the other instances that became the Lemmyverse's biggest, sad to see it go. Thank you for everything!
First thank you for the work (always keeping server up to date, fixing issues quickly, blocking spam,...).
Now time to think about migrating, any advices for another great instance?
General instances:
Sopuli.xyz is a great medium sized general purpose instance. Good admins that update to the latest Lemmy release consistently.
Lemmy.cafe could be another option if you'd prefer a smaller general purpose instance (to help spread the load and prevent the burnout that lemm.ee experienced) that's also run by a solid admin.
Themed instances:
Retrolemmy.com - a cool place for retro tech/game enthusiasts
Literature.cafe - For book lovers and readers!
lemmy.dbzer0.com - fantastic instance for Anarchists and those who like to go Yarr! 🏴☠️
Programming.dev - For techies interested in programming and linux
Mander.xyz - Focused on Science and Nature
Lemmy.zip - PC Gaming and Tech focused
You can find more over at Lemmyverse.net
Piefed:
If you're willing to try an entirely new way to interact with Lemmy and the threadiverse, consider giving Piefed.social a try, a completely independent project from Lemmy. It's still a little behind in some ways, but also has a bunch of features that lemmy doesn't. If you're a community mod looking to migrate, Piefed apparently makes it particularly easy!
Also @1024_Kibibytes@lemm.ee
Some feedback on lemmy.cafe: it used to be my alt for a few weeks end of 2024. I liked the idea of the instance, and the them, and Illecors (the admin) was indeed quite nice to talk too.
That being said, there was an issue that lasted from 22th of November to 18th of January with the thumbnails not loading, while other instances running the same version didn't have those issues: https://lemmy.cafe/post/9986198
I know that Illecors did his best, and people should definitely give the instance a try if they are interested, but this is just a warning to keep in mind that this is an instance mostly run by one person, so troubleshooting can take a bit of time.
That's a good point. On a similar note, Programming.dev had pretty severe database breakage that took quite some time to fix, but thankfully both instances seem to be healthy and working well nowadays. :)
Oh yeah, that was quite something too 😅
I chose lemmy.zip at the end. I hope this one will stay longer (I started on vlemmy.net which was put offline without notice and then I switched to lemm.ee...).
Just do it like me and create a couple accounts here and there while also migrating settings.
Thank you!
Many thanks for that curated list
Tagging so I have this pinned. I need to find a new instance
I may be biased, but lemmy.ca is pretty great
i might join it, eventhough im not canadian.
So far everyone has recommended their home instance. 😆
I recommend... Wait, shit
I'm very happy with infosec.pub. If I had to pick a different one, then I would choose lemmy.dbzer0.com.
I'm migrating to lemmy.zip, at least for the short term. They also have public instance reports, which was the major reason I joined lemm.ee. Transparency and accountability is essential. I guess the fact that those reports got more and more sparse at lemm.ee was a canary in the coal mine here....
Enjoy lemmy.zip, it's great!
These days, join-lemmy is pretty good at narrowing down instances to match your likes.
I disagree. Some of its top recommendations include lemmynsfw.com (I have nothing against NSFW but go there and read their admin posts - they have been struggling for a long time so like lemm.ee not stable), beehaw.org (a fantastic instance but I feel like one not to be casually recommended to people without explanation), hilariouschaos.com (are you fucking kidding me with this neonazi shit?), lemmy.ml (certainly nothing ever controversial can be said about that one - at least not while on that platform!😜😞), and all of this is just what I noticed today but in the past iirc multiple times even it has suggested hexbear.net to me.
So no, I don't recommend the recommendation of this site to people.
::shudders:: hexbear...yikes!
I moved over to piefed.social - it's another platform, but federated with lemmy, and has some nice features like subscribing to whole topics instead of individual communities.
Discuss.Online has fantastic admins. The uptime rate there is breathtaking. I hopped across many instances before I settled there.
PieFed is also pretty fantastic too, with so very many features that Lemmy lacks - like flairs (post and user), voting polls, categories of communities, which are user customizable and shareable, etc.
I need a recommendation as well. Lemm.ee was my gateway to Lemme.
Me too. I'm wondering where to go next. I can't really search until I get home later.
sh.itjust.works has lived up to its name
What's really disappointing is that I just made my Lemm.ee account because Lemmy.One had announced they were closing down. Kinda disheartening to make a new account only for the new instance to also shutdown.
Oh so it's your fault then. Please stop ruining instances
New phone, who dis?
NGL, I'm pretty sad to lose this handle.
I also had just joined Lemm.ee, barely over a month ago. I was really starting to enjoy it when they posted the news. Am disheartened, for sure.
That's just life on the Internet/fediverse in general, there's a constant churn of the small websites/instances as people inevitably burn out. You gotta be mentally prepared for it. I'm really sad since .ee was one of the few good instances that federated with the unpopular ones too
The only solution is improvements to the protocol so migrating instances is less painful. A different form of identity (key-based rather than domain based) would be cool to let us keep handles across instances
FEP-ef61.
https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/ef61/fep-ef61.md
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If the ability to make your own feed without much defederation behind the scenes so to say I'd recommend lemmy.zip as an alterative. When I made my account I specifically looked for an instance that would defederate only illegal and mega fucked up shit like cp and gore. This instance offers that, and is federated with almost everyone.
Lemmy.today offers smooth Lemmy experience without defederations. Loving it, using for well over a year.
I ended up choosing this one, since it's small and it helps spread the user load around.
I also decided to nuke my account, unfortunately when lemm.ee shuts down this implies users will lose control over the content saved on other instances without ability to remove it.
If you nuke it now the deletion will still sync through fediverse.
One of the best instances that was up. Sad to hear about it shutting down :/
im going to miss lemmee also this is going to led to more lemmy.world centralization sadly
I would hope that the users would not go immediately to lemmy.world, but rather other instances. But you may be right unfortunately
I went to world since thats what popped up the most in the all feed for .ee
But they're already the biggest :/
At the very least if you're going to make communities please do it elsewhere.
Sad to hear, had a very inspired name and the admin was very strong with hosting tech. Unfortunately however a generic instance with lax federation rules and no solid ideology, is a recipe for burning out your admins. The owner seemingly losing interest in lemmy also didn't help.
Yeah I agree, that model just isn't sustainable. Moderation is one of the most challenging aspects of running a Lemmy instance, and deciding to never defederate because of "free speech" and "user choice" just makes the job that much worse. It feels almost inevitable that instances like this will ultimately succumb to this type of burnout.
Really I feel like we should stop talking about "defederation" as an abstract concept without context or reason since it makes it seem like defederation happens for no reason. Which is almost never the case. We don't talk about other forms of moderation that way, and if someone did it would be clear they're one of those free speech trolls, so why do we so casually talk about defederation this way?
Seriously, defederation, like any other moderation is 100% necessary, because humans are evil pieces of shit. Not all of them, but many are. That's why we ban people, that's why we defederate the most rotten places in the fediverse. Saying "just block users" is counterproductive. You know what Lemmy would look like if that's all we offered here? Probably a more extreme version of 4chan, since those are the people that dominate when moderation isn't enforced.
Agreed
shouldve kept the nsfw, ml and hexbear instance seperate when they had the chance.
Ironically, that lemm.ee still federated with .ml, hexbear, and lemmygrad was one of the primary factors for me deciding to move my account there from lemmy.world. I want to be a part of an instance that federated with those communities and then I can just block individual communities and accounts on a case-by-case basis from my account.
ml and hexbear were getting problematic for me so i blocked them. and the users there were infesting other posts with thier rants.
aww man, this is actually depressing. Hope Lemmy as a whole grows back better after this blows over. o7
it's just one instance? i think Lemmy as a whole is fine
True it is however one of the larger ones, I read in some other comment the third largest. If those users all do not go somewhere else it would be a big cut into the userbase.
alot of them were reddit refugees, due to massive purges reddit has been doing since the beginning of the year, especially i noticed thier shadowbanning is pretty high but in the background.
ah i see. thanks for the context!
no joke, i got banned from lemmy.cafe for saying pineapple pizza bad, definitely avoid it
Fair and based /s
maniacs! will avoid those loons
I'm trying to figure out to move to another instance, and found my mod logs. Turns out a lot of my best posts have been deleted, often for stupid reasons. Apparently Lemmy isn't much better than Reddit as far as tolerating free speech.
I managed to find a new instance, but my posts haven't ported over. Looks like I'm starting over.
depends on which instance it was deleted on, when i posted on the political community/post some of my comments were deleted because i was criticising against israel by saying the "j word" in the states and people are funding the censorships. the problematic ones are usually the political ones.
I almost joined you. Thank you for all you did and I'm sad to see you go. I guess there's a reason why it's not that toxic on Lemmy, you guys were/are taking the brunt of it.
This hits so deep.
Where can I migrate to? I want a similar instance, that doesn't block other instances, instead lets users decide what content they see on their frontpage, as how lemm.ee did it.
I'd be very glad for any suggestions...
(edit: ended up migrating to lemmy.zip . Thanks everyone for your suggestions!)
maybe thelemmy.club???, if your fine with small instances or a instance ran by one person.
If the reason EE is shutting down due to lack of staff why would anyone go to a smaller one/one run by a single person? This is incredibly likely to happen there too. I didn’t actually realize this was a thing that could even happen, I just picked an instance at random, but picking the biggest and most robust instance seems like the best way to stave this off for as long as possible.
It's a fair worry.
As the admin of thelemmy.club though I will say my aim is absolutely not growth for it's own sake. If the site starts to get larger than I want I will stop allowing signups. I welcome new users, but I'm not trying to be a big instance either.
Small instances can have far less drama and workload. Just because an instance isn't popular and has a small admin team doesn't mean it's in danger of folding up. 😀
Hmm true I wanted to suggest a instance i used to be on so oh well
infosec.pub
lemmy.zip is probably the closest.
i heard lemmy.ca to, eventhough you dont need to be canadian.
Sounds exactly like what we do at Lemmy.today.
That specific part you said, about letting users decide, is the core idea of the entire instance and has been from the start.
But check out all options before you decide. The Lemmy network needs many different instances to stay strong.
just made account on there after someone reccommended it.
Mander.xyz is good
I recommend https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/ Cozy queer instance with quick moderation, and open to allies as wellAh, yeah, we do block instances. Only transphobic ones or ones that don't moderate however.
Your suggestion ignores their main criterion.
Thank you!
After the call for admins, there was never an indication that the search wasn't going well. Honestly, I would've put some time in (& I'm sure many others would've) if we'd known closure was imminent.
its probably bad sign that there was no noise after asking for donations/moderators/admins. if they had "hired" more you would think there would be posts about them.
An excuse isn't always a cause, I guess.
You're saying they're looking for an excuse to shut down? Yeah honestly that's what I figured, locking comments doesn't make any sense otherwise.
Yeah I have years of various moderating experiences, and would've happily volunteered to start a .ee account and help once in a while.
I know that instance had a policy of trying not to defederate from anything (unless very necessary). Is there another instance like this that will not be shutting down?
infosec.pub
I think sh.itjust.works has a similar policy IIRC reading the various instance policies across Lemmy. I suppose Hexbear may also be in that category, but I don't want to be subjected to constant pics of pigs shitting on their own balls.
Yeah tbh I feel like Hexbear/ML/Lemmygrad are all instances that will ruin/poison any other instances touched by them much. As well as any communities modded by the .World admin team.
Why did you bother to leave reddit?
Hexbear is actually pretty selective about who they federate with.
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lemmy.sdf.org
Lemmy.today
.ml is like that.
It may also be relevant to note that content from lemm.ee will not be deleteable once they go offline. If you are a user on lemm.ee and there is any content at all that you may at some point in the future want to delete, now is the time.
as someone who barely understands this whole fediverse stuff and had a difficult enough time just choosing and getting into an instance after leaving reddit, what does this mean for me?
is my account and all its posts, comments, activity and bookmarks just gonna be gone?
can that stuff be imported into a different instance?
this sounds like a huge pain in the ass, and my plan in picking a bigger instance in the hope it wouldnt just go off the rails or shut down apparently backfired.
No. Your account and it's posts, comment, and activity will live on because they're copied to other instances. You won't be able to log on though. That's why the post suggests making a new account and updating your bio before the shut down. Exporting and importing your settings will probably carry over bookmarks.
People seem to want to overcomplicate the fediverse. Think of instances like independent old-school internet forums each with their own mods and subforums. You pick the one you want to participate in and sign up. Yeah, you can pick more than one, and of course you have to sign up for each one independently of the other. They do not share accounts. Each forum is independent.
The big difference is that each forum can “ally” itself with another forum and your comments and posts are shared and saved among the allies, members of the other forums can interact with you because their comments are shared back to yours.
So in this case one forum (lemm.ee) shuts down, but all the shared info will still exist on the other forums, it doesn't get deleted from the allied forums. It’s just not accessible to the OP on lemm.ee anymore because the original account and forum are gone.
I think saved bookmarks that are saved on an account will no longer work unless your app saves them externally.
AFAIK contents aren't shared automatically between servers. See https://join-lemmy.org/docs/administration/federation_getting_started.html
I was trying to keep it simple. Yes, there is more to it than what I said.
this is why lemmy will never beat corporate owned services like reddit. the inconvenience is enough for most people to not even give it a chance
Which famously, never shut down and take their content with them :P
At this point I look forward to spitting on Reddit's grave
Both a blessing and a curse.
they also have political motivations, its easy to disseminate right wing propaganda, ragebaiting into the forum, like reddit.
"Beat" as in have more users? No, never, and it's better that way. "Beat" as in be a better user experience for those who have the little bit of tech literacy need to use them? It has been for years.
You will not be able to log into your account.
Your account history (profile, posts and comments) will still be visible on other instances (the ones that already exist, any new ones will not be able to fetch content from lemm.ee) in read-only.
Your bookmarks and subscriptions can be exported on the settings page (that, of cause, needs to be done before you loose access to your account). After that they can be imported to a different instance from file.
I also recomend to put a link to your new account in the profile of your old account so that people would be able to find you. It can be done like this: "@username@instance.url". For me it is "@khorovodoved@lemm.ee". That way it would work even after lemm.ee will shut down. Only do that beforehand, so it has time to federate.
It won't be gone, but rather appear as an archived copy when the profile is displayed from an existing working instance. So the posts and comments will all still be there.
The bookmarks however I don't know.
Subscriptions can be exported out of your current account and then imported into your new account.
Basically, your posts/comments etc are just sent to other servers, like in email.
You can export your bookmarks and subscriptions, the old copy of your posts/comments is available on other instances.
Such a shame. 💔
Well that's sudden and unexpected. Was there any calls for admins? I'm sort of surprised that lemm.ee couldn't find enough volunteers with their sizable user base.
https://lemmy.ca/post/37365128
Big thanks to lemm.ee, great job to the whole team
Kinda scary that the threadi (??) instance with the (probably) second-highest active users struggled enough to warrant a shutdown :(
maybe the influx of 10k accounts in the last few weeks just pushed the admin team too far?
They seemed to have been asking for help around the time reddit was banning in waves around February
it correlates in line with the massive reddit ban waves.
Dear lemm.ee and the wonderful admin,
I'm sad to see you go, but thank you, sincerely, for being the springboard that allowed me to dive into the refreshing waters of Lemmy.
Stay golden, pony boy
Forgive me, I’m still not sure what this means. Is this site just dead at the end of the month?
You are a lemme.ee user, so you will need to find another instance (it's like a server) if you want to keep using Lemmy - and I hope you do!
https://join-lemmy.org/ has a listing of instances, though I'm sure others will hop in here and recommend some.
Edit: This comment describes how to migrate your subscriptions, blocks, and saved posts
Is there a basic rundown on the different Lemmy Servers eg I have heard negative things about Hexbear etc?
Lemmy.world -- biggest, defaultest instance. All the pros and cons associated with that
Lemmy.ml -- very authoritarian leftist instance. Has a tankie problem but also has cool communists. Has heavy censorship
Lemmy.blahaj.zone -- trans focused, very queer, authoritarian by nature of being a trans safe space. Generally chiller but contradictorily also the center of a lot of drama, because people love to hate trans safe apaces.
dbzero -- don't remember the actual domain, run by dbZ. Anarchist democracy instance, very cool and chill, it's what I'd sign up on if I started afresh
sh.itjust.works -- tbh don't know much about them but pretty straightforward, is what the label aays, it just works
Hexbear -- wver wanted to see a aerver that unironically loves the chinese communist party and thinks north korea is aspirational? There you go
pawb.social -- I think this might be am mbin instance instead of a lemmy instance but I'm not sure. Can be summarized as " the furry one"
lemmynsfw -- the porn one. Most instances are defederated feom it
Those are the ones foremost in my mind. Tons of small European ones that are focused on specific countries too. I anticipate replies giving me shit for uttering the word "tankie".
I wouldn't describe it as authoritarian. That implies unjust use of authority. Their harshness towards transphobes is justified and necessary, because transphobes are an existential threat towards trans people, and queer people as a whole. It's not authoritarian, it's protective.
Mood, we're on the same page the word authoritarian just has a bit different meaning to me
See my comment here
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/26961264/14719771
I think I know why authoritarian has different connotations, specifically not inherently negative to me--stellaris! When setting up your civilization in stellaris, there are several... factors? you can base them on, each one has an opposite. Materialist vs spiritualist, militarist vs pacifist, xenophobe vs xenophile, and authoritarian vs egalitarian. I'm used to the word in the context of a descriptive spectrum, not inherently good or bad. (Usually bad in the context of irl stuff, that just doesn't seem to be where my mind goes first) Just thought you might find it neat
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Thanks this is exactly what I need.
can you explain a little bit more on why you think lemmy.blahaj.zone is authoritarian please?
I think they just mean that it's heavily moderated and principled. Which is fine and kind of the point.
Yep exactly pretty much
Sure. Transphobia is straight up not tolerated at all. There is zero room for discussion. It's not something a community on bz can allow, it's ada's mission statement that bz is a safe space for trans people, end of story. That's why I love it and use it. I wouldn't call it censorship heavy, at least not in the aame way ml and the like are. You can criticize and bitch about ada and her actions as much as you want, you won't get silenced. However, I'd still absolutely place it on the authoritarian end of the spectrum compared to a place like dbzero. I call it authoritarian but it's not a negative thing, it's why I use it. It's it done right. Idk maybe I have different connotations for the instance and for the word authoritarian than you/most people, I hope this clears up what I mean
They have a pro-monarchy community (shera), which isn't great.
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I'm sick of respectful debates about my right to exist. That's what blahaj zone is for, and it does it well.
if you disagree with the folks on lammy.blahaj.zone, good chance your a bigot anyways, so your not welcome, and good riddance too. you don't get to debate our right to exist.
There are plenty of respectful debates about trans issues, and tolerance of people genuinely not understanding queer topics. What cannot be debated respectfully is whatever or not to respect a person"s identity. No amount of polite language can make such a conversation respectful, as you're refusing to do the bare minimum required to speak to that person as an equal.
Creating a tolerant space requires not tolerating intolerance. This is not an authoritarian insight, but one centered on maximizing the freedom of everyone. If you demand a space where you can debate a basic fact about myself, then that is not a space in which I am free.
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Why not? Not every instance has to be neutral on all points.
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Do go on, you are just making dbzero seem like a cooler place.
hexbear is ultra-left wing so you might see the same type of arguments/comment styles right wingers use, .ml is pretty similar. super political users.
I would just look for an instance that doesn’t prioritize propaganda buzzwords like “freedom”
Neat, thank you!
Not this specific site, but another instance of lemmy.
I think.
Very sad to hear but totally understandable. Unfortunately, this will make the centralization of lemmy world even worse.
How much effort is it actually to host a small instance? I am thinking about hosting one mostly for my self. Mainly because I am interested in the technology. Also my country doesn't have one so that could be a topic too if there is some interest. But hearing this I am not so sure anymore. I can't put many hours into it each week just to keep it running.
Sounds like it's not the technical side that's too difficult, but managing the users.
Yeah moderation is the biggest challenge on Lemmy servers, they ended up making it more challenging for themselves with the decision to never defederate from any instance and lean all the way into the hysteria surrounding defederation. That's really not a sustainable model for the long term, it increases workload, and drives off portions of the userbase who are sensitive to extreme or aggressive people (the people who run wild if you never defederate troll instances or ban trolls).
Not too hard tbh, I had a bird themed one going for like 3 days.
I'd love to join a smaller instance, and would happily volunteer to help with one.
Gonna miss it here. The admins were chill as hell and so were the communities hosted here. Especially the car one.
Who the h*ck are you.
Thank you and the admin team, past and present, for their time and care.
The settings import / export feature is extremely cool.
Reminds me of the many times I was banned from reddit for no good reason and then had to reset every one of my subs. So much easier, and just goes to back up the decentralized philosophy of lemmy.
Reddit arguably has no reason for it because if you're banned you're not supposed to make a new account. I would never do such a thing!
so where do i go now?
I'd recommend going to lemmy.zip or lemmy.ca. They work almost exactly the same as lemm.ee, and you can interact with the same content.
thank you
you can try lemmy.today. probably best to make different accts.
i might make one for those. i already made a new lemmy.today, and world just in case.
I just moved to lemmy.zip.
And how? I came here due to full reddit ban not cause I knew anything about the platform and wanted in, it I do like the platform and I’m glad I was “forced” to try it. Except I didn’t, and don’t, know what instances are, why they matter beyond “decentralization” and I just picked one at random because I didn’t realize your “instance” could just be removed… if an instance can be removed/shut down it doesn’t seem like any instance is actually a safe place to go since it’s not depended on me but whoever is running it? You can lose your account no matter what. Idk if this means I should try to figure this out, which is just make a new account I think? Or if this is a sign for me to give up my last social media outlet and just be done with reddit/reddit clones in general
think of instances, like thier own reddit clones. one clone can die and you have to make a new acc with another, apparently this cas was lack of administration/modding, or money.
but instances seems to die very quickly soon after created, thats the only thing. the instances to avoid is the extremely political ones: ml, hexbear, conservative.
Unlike reddit, you can bring most of your account with you to a new instance (a different server. basically imagine each instance is its own mini-reddit, and all the mini-reddits can talk to each other).
If you go to your Account Settings page, you can export your account JSON file, which you can then import into a new instance so you can bring your subscriptions, blocks, and favorited comments/posts.
To help choose a new instance, check out this comment.
An "instance" is a server that talks to all the other Lemmy servers, where your account info and login are stored. There's a lot of benefits to decentralization - even if one instance goes down, like lemm.ee, it doesn't really impact the whole of Lemmy too severely. The cost of running an instance isn't super high, which means that if an instance is being annoying about advertising or something, you can ditch it with little cost to yourself and even run your own instance if you want. A single cabal of admins can't ruin it like Reddit (cough cough Spez) and it can be easier to curate your own experience by choosing what instances you want to ignore completely.
Any given instance is not necessarily a safe harbor, but as long as Lemmy is around, there will probably be multiple instances to choose from. The only thing you really lose is your post history - and you can link to your old account info in your new account for continuity's sake.
reddit was doing multi-account bans retroactively which was pretty much very rare unheard of. basically any old accounts that participated in the sub years ago were instantly ban if any of your other accounts were subreddit banned.
Nothing is perfect and nothing is permanent.
If you are extremely motivated to have an account that can never be pulled out from under you, you must run your own instance.
In the fediverse, its plausible to do this and still be connected to others. There are.lots of single user instances. There were some small businesses opening where you could pay someone else to do the admin work for you if you are disinclined to that kind of geekery yourself.
See the other comment
I mean, yeah, any instance could be gone at any time. Anything can disappear at any time. Don't overthink it. Just pick a new instance at random like you did before. Export and import settings. Leave a note on your profile where your new account is. Once lemm.ee is gone, your account's info page will forever say where your new account is. This instance shutting down doesn't mean your old comments and posts disappear. Sure, you won't be able to directly respond to them, but they aren't vanishing.
It sucks, and it's an annoyance, but it's hardly the end of the world.
Think about if this were a non-federated platform. You'd be shit out of luck. All your posts and comments would be gone forever. All of everyone's content from your instance would just be lost to time when the server shits down. But with federation it gets copied to other instances. It will live on there. The only time it won't be is if someone makes a new instance after lemm.ee is gone, they won't be able to pull in old lemm.ee stuff.
The best analogy is still E-mail. Me@Gmail.com can talk to you@outlook.com, which can talk to employee@random-company.com. Sometimes an email service shuts down - has anyone checked if yahoo still exists?
So in that case, you have to get a new mail and probably move your important stuff over. It sure sucks, but there is no good way around it, if you want to be able to choose between different services.
Imagine everyone using only gmail: what if Google decided you smell and they don't want your business any more? What if Google decided to make every login cost $5? Or that you need to say "I love Coca Cola" to read your mail?
As someone new to Lemmy, thanks for asking this. I just joined lemm.ee from a Reddit link, and I don't know all the different flavors of the different domains.
Here are some servers.
Shouldn't you be fine using lemmy.world?
I'd suggest not moving towards even more consolidation on the biggest instance. It rather defeats the point of decentralisation.
I myself am a lemm.ee refugee (just registered this new account today) and I specifically ruled world out because it benefits the health of Lemmy more to spread users and communities around.
somoene reccommended zip, ca, today.
Okay that's so thoughtful.
world blocks piracy ones, and the problematic ones.
Ahh I see
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Good question.
I imported my account to piefed (very easy to do) and none of my comments or posts, saved or otherwise, came over. All my subs and blocks did though, which is a fine trade off.
I'll need some time to find where to migrate, if at all. Lemm.ee was very well managed and I would've gladly volunteered to help out. My bad for not paying closer attention sooner.
I moderate a community. Do I need to move that community? Or can I just give it over to my new account?
You create the community on another instance. You update the lemm.ee version with a sticky post and sidebar edit to let people know the new location. Do that before lemm.ee closes down, and even people that find the lemm.ee version of the group after the instance is gone will still be able to find your new location
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/45876780
I volunteered to mod and the admins didn't contact me. So I thought they had enough people.
They didnt need mods though, they needed admins
Ahhh thank you for the correction
Isn't an admin just a moderator for moderators?
On reddit yes, but on the fediverse it's mostly the people running the servers.
So long, and thanks for all the fish! o7
I was taking a break from browsing lemmy the last few days and just saw this. I'm absolutely devastated. I knew the admins were looking for new mods and such but never knew it was this severe. I don't think I could've spent my time doing this work but I definitely could've given a few dollars if that helped.
Well now I feel awful for not helping when they needed admins :( I don't manage servers or even have experience managing communities.
Don't feel bad, it's not like it's your fault. Just keep it in mind for the next instance you join, if they seem to be struggling or call for help.
I’ve only been on Lemmy for a year, but this feels pretty significant. How do we prevent this from happening to other instances? Or do we not see it as a huge problem if we assume most active users will migrate to other Lemmy instances?
Also side note, I think Voyager defaults to lemm.ee.
Normalising helping the instances out I guess, Lemmy acts more like a group/commune and it thrives when people step up to do more than their peers at their own expense to benefit everyone
With all the communists you think it wouldn’t be an issue if all you have to do is put in more work at your own expense
well they are all in thier own instances that nobody here wants to deal with.
Communists are just as selfish as anyone else. Their point is that if we want a better life we need to move beyond capitalism, communism is an appeal to our selfish nature as much as it is a call for cooperation.
They moved to lemmy.zip: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/45890744
— lemm.ee admins 4 months ago
Being an admin is a job and deserves pay. We don't have an infinite supply of good people to deal with an infinite supply of AI-generated trolling. That means we need donations in the short term, and to consider paid memberships in the long term.
Ads won't work at all because we're all using open source clients and browsers with Ublock. And even if they did, we know where that leads.
Evil suggestion: lock minor features behind pay walls, like profile pictures or bolding their name in comments. There are more people who will pay to look cool than there are people who will inconspicuously donate.
I suppose we should normalize lemmy instances closing new registrations, to keep the user count at a manageable level for the admins.
I'm not sure that would work. Admins need to manage their instance users, yes, but they also need to look out for the posts and comments in the communities hosted on their instance, and be one level of appeal above the mods of those communities. Including the ability to actually delete content hosted in those communities, or cached media on their own servers, in response to legal obligations.
True, it's not a perfect measure. But surely an instance with fewer users also tends to have fewer active communities, no?
It might be better than nothing at least.
or have a more restrictive sign up process to limit spamming.
I like Lemmy, but it's not decentralised enough to avoid things like this.
I think it's inevitable right now, even if it's a lot rarer than it was during the great exodus from reddit. You're reliant entirely on the goodwill of volunteers.
User accounts are unique only to an instance, and there's no way to move them. If we want to avoid this, having multiple homes on an account would be a good first step. You probably don't want them going everywhere (as that would need login details, which while hashed wouldn't be immune to bad actors getting them). But making a new account elsewhere isn't hard, it's just annoying to lose your history.
Any lost communities are much harder to replace. Links get broken, etc. You can't move those either, so have to make them anew and convince people to update any links before they vanish.
Honestly not sure if Lemmy's approach is a good one or not. Recently we've had transphobic users from one instance harassing people on another, and without things like IP addresses, it's hard to stop that. Your own instance also has to host a bunch of stuff from other places, and you can end up with illegal content being copied to your own hardware if hosting an instance. Maybe it should be on the instances to host communities, and on the clients to gather things from multiple servers.
Sorry this might be obvious, but even if an instance disappeared with all its communities, wouldn’t those communities and their content still exist as copies to other federated instances? My understanding is federation means I’m going to copy all of your content to my instance. So I’m assuming that means even if your instance stops existing, all those copies on my instance still exist. Or am I missing something?
Not 100% sure. As a guess based on how I think the Fediverse works, I think they'd exist, but new comments and posts would cease to sync around, so they'd effectively be only on your instance.
I guess my point is that historic data won’t cease to exist unless all the federated instances deleted the data or also shut down. And links would only be broken if you are access the data via lemm.ee. But if you’re accessing data via one of the federated instance’s APIs, I think you should be good? But I’m still relatively new to all this federation so I would appreciate if someone smarter than me chimed in.
Decentralization is a double edged sword, you just have to accept you give up some things to get other things.
We don't, and we can't. What we need is to stop acting like Actors/People/Groups are single points homed on a single instance. They should be a ring of mirrored instance entities, so the "source" Actor and content are still there when one instance drops out of the ring. Everything is already getting copied around, we're just missing out on the biggest value of that: RAID for identities.
Ie, if I make my accounts on three sites, those should all be me, and it doesn't matter to the fediverse which one I use at any given moment. Same for communities.
That's real federation, not this ramshackle heap of points of failure where we just hope we don't individually get bit too often by shutdowns, even though shutdowns are completely inevitable.
Almost as if Lemmy should not tie each community to only one specific underlying server.
Yep, I think the same.
I know that at a technical level would be hard to have common communities among instances. But it should be a goal, as it would add resiliance to the project.
Easy, Nostr does this.
Nostr has its own problems. Like you can't easily defederate from spam servers in Nostr. Every person has to remove spammers, too, instead of an admin doing it.
Seem easy enough to fix, blocklist subscription.
That's still a person against a bot. Spammers can spin up accounts automatically in Nostr with no verification.
nostr is radically different to activitypub.
The solution is different, imo.
Take a look at fep ef61.
Soon to be homeless noob here, shopping for a new home. Is there an easy way to see what instance X has defederated from? I'm looking for an instance that doesn't defederate much (as I just aggressively block the specific communities inside of questionable instances). Looking for an instance with few technical issues/downtime that doesn't defederate from NSFW/piracy, etc
lemmy.zip is good for not having too many defeds.
Try defed.xyz.
if you go to /instances on any server it shows what they are connected to and blocking, e.g., lemm.ee/instances
Db0?
Seconding Db0, it's nice here ☺️
I think this is it https://defed.xyz/ all together
But on any instance you can scroll the the bottom and click "instances" in the footer to see its relationships to others
Maybe we can take this as an opportunity to understand the importance of separating "instance for groups" and "instance for users"?
Doesn't really solve the issue, admins will all want to manage an instance for groups rather than instance for users as that would avoid much of the drama.
And that is bad why...?
The people that want to be in charge of large groups of people are often the people you least want to be under.
This argument applies more to "instance with lots of users and groups" (what we have now) than "communities with lots of users on topic-specific instances", so I don't think this is the problem here.
Let's say we are in a different universe where lemm.ee is a users instance, and not a groups instances.
Drama still happens involving lemm.ee users.
Admins still get burnt out.
They still shut down the instance.
So indeed the communities wouldn't have to move, but the 5.5k monthly active users of Lemm.ee (out of 47k total) would still have to find a new instance.
Only the users on lemm.ee are affected by it, in this scenario. It is bad, but the current scenario is much worse.
User-only instances are less dependent on each other, defederation is not as big of an issue, so a lot of the drama would go away.
Less communities on their instances means less traffic, less activities, less moderation reports (they would have to deal only with users on their own instances) and if even then they are overloaded with work, they could decide to scale down the operation before reaching burning-out point: close the instance for new registrations, make user registration conditional on payment/donation, etc.
I've had this idea as well, and I definitely see some benefits though as stated in the thread by someone else, most admins would want to be on a groups instance and not a users instance and I'm not sure how to combat that. The thought that occurred to me was a lemmy federation compatible community only instance server that could augment the current thrediverse landscape. Essentially making it easier to spin up a community for your topic than it is to spin up a while new instance. It would still be easiest to just make a community on your main user instance but it would introduce a new difficulty level for communities to run separate without standing up a whole Lemmy instance.
Reddit refugee here, can someone recommend to me a place that is not heavily censored but also not filled with racists and white supremacists?
lemmy.dbzer0.com
sh.itjust.works
Lol
?
It's a real community!
*instance
The domain is a Lemmy instance. A community is the equivalent of a subreddit. !fediverse@lemmy.world is a community within the lemmy.world instance, for example.
Yeah thats what i meant 👍
I’m on @discuss.tchncs. It’s a German instance but I’m not German and it’s not been an issue.
I love it on infosec.pub, doesn't defederate from most instances unless they are particularly hostile, doesn't censor in itself, and hosts mostly tech/nerd communities.
I think I've heard of it before
feddit.uk if you're in the UK
Aren't those opposing requriments.
No, if you think of censorship as a sliding scale with total freedom to say anything on one side and extremely rigid and locked down on the other, it doesn't take much moving away from the anything goes side to want to block racists.
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/
They said "not heavily censored" homie
NOO! I loved this place.
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i know right. lemmy.ml has the same UI and im considering that to be my next go-to.
I would consider another one if I werre you.
ah, well the good thing is, someone reached out to me from piefed and im transferring my community there.
You can use lemmy.dbzer0.com
You best either be pro "communist" or not really talk about politics at all of you want to go to lemmy.ml
It's run by the same people who run lemmygrad and their moderation policies reflect that
That is unfortunate :( they were one of the instances I could easily recommend to new users. Sad to see them go, but I get it. Moderation is hard job
lemmy.cafe is extremely recommendable to me now.
Pretty neutral, doesn't have a weird domain name and they block hexbear and lemmygrad.
Is transferring it to someone else in the cards? I have an LLC intended for my own future instance plans, but I'd be more than happy to take over .ee under it to prevent the loss of another good Lemmy-verse instance
Yeah, I'd love to see if something like that were possible. I'd even volunteer....
I can't comment on whether the admins are likely to be open to this, but it's definitely more drama than simply shutting down.
The data users provided to lemm.ee was entrusted to the admins of that instance. It might not seem like a big deal, but just handing it over isn't really appropriate.
Well I would hope, if they were open to it, they would have internal discussions with the main mods and maybe some sort of vote amongst their user base and/or giving those who'd rather not time to delete their data before anything changes hands
This sounds like a real nightmare.
If the admins have had enough then I imagine there's not much appetite for something like this.
The first thing they'd do would be to defed ml, grad and hexbear anyway.
Although I wouldn't blame them for the later two, but the whole point of .ee was it's reluctance to defed.
Not one of the titans 😭
Ok, I can export the settings of my profile, but how do I export posts and comments and transfer them to a new instance?
All your old stuff will stay visible even after lemm.ee goes down, but it won't be linked with whatever new user you create on another instance.
If export and import of posts and comments was possible it would result in "duplicating" your posts and comments to your new account, which as you might imagine would be an absolute mess (not to mention technically infeasible - how would comment chains with other users work?) so you can presumably understand why it isn't.
It's quite annoying for sure (and I'm a lemm.ee user too, so I'm also annoyed with everything I'm losing) but this is the trade-off we accept with federation that allows Lemmy as a whole to be robust and keep going even without lemm.ee
Is it possible to export these for offline viewing?
Not that I'm aware of. The Lemmy APIs provide access to that data but I don't know of any existing tool that uses it for the purpose of exporting posts or comments.
I dont think lemmy supports this. Posts and comments on your "old" account will stay there and if you look at that profile from the view of another account, will still be visible.
Maybe exporting them as a downloadable archive is possible? So you could keep a copy on your desktop? I dont know.
I was also wondering this too
Idk how viable it is, but I wish they had asked if someone wanted to take over and let them
If they couldn't find/trust additional admins, I don't see how they could've handed it off entirely...
Anyone is free to spin up an instance, go nuts.
I did and have one, I just liked this domain and this account and these communities, theres a clear difference between this one and an entirely new one
Why do you feel the need to misinterpret what people say on purpose lol
Uh so where am I gonna go?
Shout out to lemmy.sdf.org I've been a happy camper on this instance. Fair warning, they are not defederated from the typical lists, so you are responsible for curating your feed
https://join-lemmy.org/ can help you find an instance based on your interests.
Can it rate them by financial stability or admin burnout?
This is a massive loss for the Fediverse.
On the topic of admjn burnout, I find it ridiculous that we choose to put so much burden on instance and community admins. Why don't people just utilize their block functions instead of expecting admins to clean up bad posts and users as fast as possible?
Not saying admins should do nothing, but it should be sufficient for an admin to only do what's absolutely necessary to keep the instance alive (including removal of illegal content). Anything else should be considered extra credit and no one should be entertained complaining about it.
If you see a community for the first time, and then see harassment and insults everywhere, you're probably not going to block every offender, you're just going to not visit that community again.
Libertarians envision a system where everyone takes care of their own trash without regulation or municipal waste services.
Normies come in and see neighborhoods with rubbish everywhere, overrun by bears and racoons.
Not just a metaphor, it really happened.
Not a libertarian if you were referring to me. I envision a system in which we all contribute and take part instead of throwing all the effort on someone already providing you with the space and expecting them to do it all, when you can more easily do it yourself.
Sure, if I want a community about cooking and instead of finding cooking content I find insults and harassment, then I will leave. That's essentially an equivalent of the blocking feature I spoke about.
But I find it hard to believe that such a cooking community would become good by just having a moderator ban all the offenders, when they occupy most of the posts.
still need to report people for spreading dangerous info around, and sometimes the same dangerous people are probably trying to brigade and report people too. whichr eddit had to deal with unfortunately, that caused them to overmoderate.
RIP. Thanks for all you've done.
Welp, time to switch accounts again. I made 3 during the early days when I was trying different instances out, and this one's the third one.
Is sh.it.justworks shutting down?
No, this is the one I just switched to. No point in continuing to use the lemm.ee one.
well ig i have to move back to my thelemmy.club account
Going to be interesting seeing the community shift around. Thanks for all the hard work Lemm.ee admins.
Shit fuck
I started on .world but lemm.ee was truly where I've found my fedi home. Thank you for the good times.
So long, & thanks for all the fish!
This is sad, but also not unexpected. I'd noticed a lack of engagement from their admin team for a while, and very often they wouldn't respond to reports. Still sad to see them go, and also slightly worrying since there are a lot of active communities on there and many many users.
they were asking for admins right around the time i joined lemmy, after a reddit purge.
Thank you for been there
Damn, even if it was to be excepted with how the admin issue was evolving, it's still sad.
But i guess the strengh of the fediverse come from the fact that such an issue can happen without impacting the entire lemmy community as a whole.
I'm just worried that the lack of moderation becomes a recurrent issue in the future of lemmy with the userbase growth and the lack of revenue.
I wish best luck for communities moderators and EE users!
I wish a sincere “fuck you” to all the Russian trolls that caused this outcome.
Context?
In case you’re not actually here to sealion I encourage you to read through the modlog of lem.ee communities.
Oh I had no idea. But it makes sense, cause I never see any Russian troll shit on there*
theres alot of trolling if you go political communities, or posts.
What? Are you trying to claim that not all trolls are Russian government agents? You tankie!
Does it make sense though? Does it make sense that a niche English language social media instance war caused to shutdowns by "Russians"?
Oh look a .ml user defending Russia. How shocking.
Certain kinds of people blame Russia for all bad things in their life
A lot of those people would be correct :)
"I stubbed my toe, Damn You Russia!"
You: "this person is reasonable and correct"
How does that strawmanning work out for you? Does it make you feel clever?
Not a strawman. I wish you Reddit debatebros would actually learn what these terms mean, rather than treating them like magical incantations that can be used anywhere to magically win an argument
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You sure they're not a secret asian trying to sabotage the war bonds?
Odd that you didn't immediately jump that conclusion when they said something you disagreed with. Sounds a bit asian to me.
So you people actually think "Russia is responsible for everything bad in my life" is a reasonable take?
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I get your point, some people do blame everything on certain groups, but this is about an internet stereotype, and everyone, or at least most people, know that stereotypes have to be true to some extent.
I've come across my fair share of Russian trolls, which are the majority for my case, and next are American trolls.
I'd assume that most of the people complaining about Russian trolls I've seen on Lemmy and other social media are from the USA or the EU, and for context, I'm from Australia, so it isn't one specific area in the world that experiences it, it's global, making it even more valid of a stereotype since it's so omnipresent.
No actually, they don't.
Really? And how did you determine that? Because unless you actually had some way of verifying that they were "Russian trolls", you're just begging the question and assuming what you already believed.
In other words; people who are overwhelmingly more likely to be interacting with anglosphere trolls than Russian ones.
A bunch of anglophones western countries is very much "one specific area in the world"
Is it? How exactly have you determined it to be "omnipresent"? Sounds like you're just engaging in extremely circular reasoning.
To be fair there are a lot of American tankies as well.
No, only Russian, you disinformation spreading tankie!
Wait what happened
Nothing, they're just one of those people who thinks everything is a Russian conspiracy
Yes, lemm.ee is shutting down because of a sinister foreign conspiracy.
Very unfortunate, lemm.ee had a real promise of being a flagship lemmy instance.
Bit of an off topic question though, as someone who really has no knowledge on software development, what are the chances lemmy as a whole could fork?
What does forking have to do with this instance shutdown? They were lacking admins for running the instance, not developers.
Because a couple weeks ago, the lemm.ee crew made a post asking for donations and their comment section immediately went dumpster fire mode. Not saying they can't ask for donations, but I can imagine its very problematic considering that the lead developers themselves are very hateful, transphobic and have questionable political opinions.
You cannot possibly convice me that didn't somehow influence this decision to shutdown the instance. And if lemmy doesn't find a way to keep that stuff down we're def gonna see more instances shutting down.
Iirc the request for donations was a repost from .ml the instance run by the devs of lemmy software, not a request by the admins of lemm.ee for support.
I think we're talking about different posts, here is the one I'm talking about: lemm.ee/post/63041344
Same post. There is a link from that post to the ml post. In your link the admin says money is good for lemm.ee donate to ml.
No, that post is a request from the lemm.ee admins to donate to Lemmy, the software. Not to donate to lemm.ee. You're talking about the same post.
Yea I never said specifically to donate to .ee, dingus. I said "asking for donations". It's a very ambiguous. My point was the backlash from that comment section definitely took a toll on the admins.
They didn't, that was a post asking to donate to lemmy, the software.
I can because it's completely irrelevant, and what stopped this instance seems to have nothing to do with the development, but rather to do with the amount of volunteers and their work load.
There are already lemmy compatible solutions.
Don't need another fork / competitor unless it has killer features that other don't have.
Sucks, made a new account on world. The app i use defaults to .ee so thats why i chose it when i joined lemmy.
oh shit :(
Sad to hear, and thank you for the time we had.
I don't want to be dismissive, but can anyone explain how to select an instance with best chances at longevity? Are there other instances with a more structured or longterm roadmap?
I was not expecting to wake up to this :(
On one hand, it makes me want to recommend Lemmy.World even more. On the other hand, if Lemmy.World ends up like this too...
It's a really tricky situation.
Lemmy.world is already the largest instance, recommending it to more people seems like it'd just speedrun burnout like what happened to lemm.ee, not to mention centralization around .world goes against the philosophy of the fediverse.
I don't see us going down anytime soon, and at current user numbers I don't think there's going to be a major difference in moderation workload with the influx of users compared to what we already have, but it really is not great for decentralization. We already try delegating the majority of moderation to community moderators where applicable, where on a lot of other instances the admin teams seem to be more involved in addressing community reports on admin level as well. For the most part we're dealing only with instance level topics in the admin team and provide some additional tooling to improve report notifications to community mods. There are even various benefits from a moderation perspective when users are all local and not remote, as with federation a lot of signals that would allow various types of abuse are unfortunately lost. That said, I would still prefer if there were more stable and larger instances overall, while not having a single instance stand out as massively larger than any other one. Friendly "competition" is almost always beneficial for everyone involved.
lemm.ee being the second largest instance and the shutdown only being announced less than a month before is unfortunately also not something that gives people looking for a stable instance much confidence. I hope this won't scare too many users away from Lemmy and that most will just find a new instance in the Fediverse.
Instance moderation and moderation in general are unfortunately tasks that can be very challenging at scale, even with just a few thousand users, especially when dealing with drama. It's not really a surprise that there are somewhat frequently posts from larger instances looking for new admins, while older admins on the same instance are becoming less active. Even if people aren't exhausted from their involvement, their circumstances in life may change, or they may no longer be interested in Lemmy as a platform in general, leading to a number of reasons why admins may not be as active as it seems when looking at the list of admins in an instance sidebar. It's often a thankless job with a lot of things happening in the background to deal with spam, trolls and other issues, which most users won't even see when done right.
It's sad. I'm really going to miss this place. I migrated to lemmy.blahaj.zone. I hope I'll continue to have great experiences there.
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Wow you totally seem like a credible and sensible person to make such an assessment, totally not someone with a history of transphobic arguments, nope, not at all, totally not someone who would get themselves banned making such an argument and deserve it 100%.
If it wasn't clear I was being sarcastic. You clearly parroted right-wing transphobic talking points which means you believe or agree with them to a certain extent. You are not a safe person for trans people. Saying "I'm not transphobic I support LGBTQ, but..." is the equivalent of saying "I'm not racist, I have black friends". I know your kind very well. I used to be one.
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people (with a much different experience than you) tell you that you're hurting them. you say they're just lying?
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Let me kick your nuts and tell you the exact same thing. Just ignore the pain, bro
If it's any consolation, I'm with you on blahaj. It's like a sea of people who can't wait for someone to point a finger at. Your post was harmless, questioning, and didn't seem hate-filled at all. I usually avoid blahaj users, I never know when even a harmless phrase will be enough to cause one of them to have a nervous breakdown.
You don't get the point of the instance. That sports thing is deliberately pushed by the alt right because it gets people riled up, it was literally a non issue until they started bringing it up (and lying about it, making it seem like a bigger issue than it really is). There are not a lot of trans women and we largely don't compete at a professional level. We have to keep hearing this tired old debate over and over, and so on blåhaj, which is supposed to be a safe space, we simply ban all alt right rhetoric targeting us rather than engage in it.
Do you know how often someone shows up and randomly brings up some unrelated alt right talking point? In an unrelated post? Yeah this is not us being sensitive, this is other people not understanding what it means to be a minority being specifically targeted to create engagement. We can't all expend all of our energy all of the time to rebuke every single argument. That effort would legitimately be inhuman
Lemmy is a federated site, and you have to accept that blahaj is a public instance, as do the rest of the users. If you guys can't have a conversation without flipping your shit, or can't handle your own business, then lock the door.
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But delete-instead-of-downvote is how you drive out the trolls. If you give shitty people a platform labeled "I think this person is wrong" then you've still given them a platform.
If you don't understand the actions, it's probably because you're not trans. Try to be aware of that. Would a few comments seriously deteriorate your mental health? No, but transphobia might end up doing that on trans folks, that's why it's completely removed.
Zzzzzz
Yup they're your typical transphobic bigot who's mad that someone actually stands up against them and won't tolerate them. It's important to challenge these types of people so that the mask can slip off and they reveal themselves for who they really are.
Have met her IRL.
She's a decent person, but not the greatest at admining, and needs to finally fucking block .ml like an adult.
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I would never in a million years moderate or become an admin of an online community. You couldn't pay me to do that shit. Respect to the selfless people who make the effort.
What about in a hundred billion years?
Lemmy needs private servers
technically if they are isolated from other instances, they would be private. then you wouldnt be able to acces other content.
Lemmy actually needs more instances. The thing is that any lemmy instance can go down. We shouldn't depend on lemmy.wold, lemmy.ml or even lemmy.ca, but build instances so we can allow all these users to access lemmy. Just to add a factor, imagine all the costs for hosting an instance.
I wish I could host a lemmy instance, but at this moment I can't.
I think I might be based there, but how do I know? I’ve literally only used the app to access this place. Laptop is strictly reserved for porn. lol
The @ behind your Username says lemm.ee , so yes you are a lemm.ee user
Thx. I don’t see that in daily use browsing and commenting. I see now that it does show up at the top when I’m replying to you tho.
How does one delete their lemm.ee account?
No need, they'll do it for you in a few weeks...
It literally said in the linked post that this isn’t the case…
Cool, now we'll get an influx into lemmy.world and I'll finally have a reason to abandon this account lol
.world was already the closest thing to reddit on the fediverse.
lol yeah even has the shitty sociopath admins.
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Please say it ain't so. I know it's hard work, but hang in there. The trolling is on hyperdrive now so that people don't act at this critical moment. Reddit sold out because of Elon Musk, and there is a new need for Lemmy because of it. I would forgive you if you did ads or used AI to moderate. The point is, either we fight the trolls online from the safety of our homes or we will have to deal with them in real life. Trust me, you don't want that. These are real people with a sick agenda, they are 1000 times worse in the flesh. If you need help, PM me. I'm sure others will step up to the plate. Anyone here willing to help Lemmy, please say you will in the comments.
I am reborn!
Is lemmy.word the same thing as lemm.ee?
Nope
That's good.
No, it's a completely different instance. It was less restrictive and not banned by some communities, for example lemmy.world blocks piracy communities on dbzer0 and is also defederated from beehaw.org
Wait, my instance blocks piracy communities on dbzer0 in particular?
At least it did. Can you access !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com ?
We fine folks here at infosec can see it.
Fuck, no I can't. I want my piracy!
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Fair. Not a fan of Reddit anymore, so having an alternative is important.
What will happen to the remaining donated funds once everything has been settled (assuming there's funds left over)?
I mean after that, once the server is shut down and hosting bills are paid.
They said "please stop donating". Returning funds or organizing what to do with them is a bunch of work. If they're shutting down because running the instance is too much work and they feel hassled then I wouldn't begrudge them just keeping the few thousand left over.
say bye-bye
If there's $10 left over one admin can buy 2 slices of pizza and a can of pop in payment for 1000s hours of free labor.
and you cant exactly go .world, with them have a political agenda in some of the communities. im guessing alot of people from ml/hexbear and world was gatekeeping comments on this instance too. and the high amount of wierd sexual kink communities on some of the feeds i have to block.
.world is the enxt largest instances, but i tried creating an acct once, but they seem to have a narrative too.
Lenmy.world simply defederates from the crazies like hexbear, lemm.ee wanted to avoid defederating this is the end result, bad actors will overwhelm and burn out your mod/admin team.
Classic case of Paradox of tolerance
They also defederate from piracy communities
There are some servers that defederate from lemmy.world, for example beehaw.org
Is that a bad thing?
If you want to also access those communities then yeah, if you don't then doesn't matter.
And?
Nah man ML etc is insane, but .World's admins are sociopaths (speaking as someone who was internally there for a while. Just a circlejerk all the way through.
I don't think you have the qualifications to assess someone as a sociopath
When it''s obvious as all hell you don't need qualifications.
I could publish hundreds of chat logs showing their behavior, but I'm a mature person, so I'm not.
.world has no problem with right-wing/Zionist crazies.
This is like closing a nature reserve due to insufficient landscapers.
nature preserve is closest to a laboratory doing research and discovery, closing down forever, which results ina permanent loss of sciencetific discoversies.
dont think its the same thing. closest analogy thing is lack of workers at a fast food restuarant causing it to close. but you sitll can go to another fast food restuarant in the same chain or another chain that is very similar. just think of reddit as "mcdonalds and lemmy as BK. bad anology, but you get the jist.
That is a terrible and wildly inaccurate analogy. Running an instance is not comparable to a nature reserve
all good things gotta come to a end sadly this good thing came to a end because bots an rusdian trolls with to much time on there hands
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Or just closing registrations and only connecting to the popular instances, they prob just lost interest and went back to reddit or are hopeful on digg
assuming one dint get perma-banned from reddit, which is where all the recent users came from.
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At this point, I will just pack a kit and go into the woods, cut all human contact
I'll take this as a sign to switch to reddit instead!
you wanna switch from a rusty razor to a rusty radioactive razor? Odd choice
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is there anyone for center leaning folks?
you could look for instances with no stated political goals.
I'm on a general instance for UK people. do the admins have biases? probably. but as far as i can tell it's not an instance with a political goal.
Above all avoid the tankie triad lemmy.ml, lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net are not recommended unless you're into... that sort of thing
i got banned from lemmy.cafe for saying pineapple pizza bad, definitely avoid it
i don't blame them, you monster
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@FrostyTrichs Not sure why you don't like it but just offering an alternative that is not going away at the end of the month.
Censorship kills another server. rip.
there needs to be less of it and more discussion. if someone posts something you dont like, ignore and downvote it and move on. i rather be allowed to read the other sides comments than not at all.
why even are lemmy servers so overmoderated, jts not like we get flooded with users. whats more important, the fediverse success or thay you can ban another user because he doesnt fully support and yield to the current thing?
it seems the issue wasnt the server cost that will shut down lemm.ee.
im sick of mods. nobody likes mods!
Found the guy who's never moderated a large community. It's not discussions with opposing viewpoints, it's ad spam, harassment, CSAM, gore, literal neo-nazis, and once in a while someone spamming racial slurs.
im more than a decade on the web. i think i can take it. if you cant, then dont do it?
Wow a whole decade??
This dude has lived a post-Tubgirl life and thinks he's tough.
Yeah wow 2015 how impressive
I think you should try it then, see how much fun it is.
the last decades been heavily moderated lol
Then self-host your own instance.
the time isnt right. i can still freely say what i want on the fediverse. if i were a radical then the time would probably be right.
9 day account complaining about mods 🤣
blocked
People who complain this loudly about mods tend to be living proof of why mods are important.
Well, fedi continues the culture of reddit where people abuse report function to censor others.
Mods should be more discerning since this leads to censorship very quickly plus it enables bad faith behavior.
And nothing of value was lost
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70% of my blocklist comes from that instance, they are not good people
Just for my own opinions, what defines not being a good person to you?
Holy fucking free labor Batman!
Yeah no, I'm not spending the next two hours of my life detailing my ethical framework to you because it isn't all that different from anyone else.
Ok
:/ that's not very nice
neither are they
I respect your craft as a troll, but... No, wait I don't, go fuck yourself.
Looks like I'm quite late to suggest, but couldn't we use AI to admin instances & mod communities, if not fully then at least the bulk of it? Also charge users on a freemium model so as to pay for admins / mods? Every instance needs an incentive structure to maintain a healthy & happy community and a way to pay for the operations required to run the instance.
you mention AI moderation and a healthy community in the same motherfucking paragraph?
That's what reddit is currently doing, and look at the result. Bans left and right with no recourse
Go to facebook ir you want that, lol.
Literally, the point of all of this is to fkng have a more human internet in the first place, and you come here and say this?
you even say we should have Lemmy premium LMAO, AI and For profit are both things fully incompatible with the goal of a more human internet.
It makes me mad.