Billionaire-proofing the internet — Pluralistic
submitted flamingos-cant
bypluralistic.net/2025/01/14/contesting-popularit…
Cory Doctorow explaining why he endorses the "Free Our Feeds" initiative (Lemmy discussion)
During the Napster wars, the record labels *seriously* pissed off millions of internet users when they sued over 19,000 music fans, mostly kids, but also grannies, old people, and dead people.
[…]
One thing everyone agreed on was how disgusted we all were with the labels. What we *didn't* agree on was what to do about it. A lot of us wanted to reform copyright – say, by creating a blanket license for internet music so that artists could get paid directly. This was the systemic approach.Another group – call them the "individualists" – wanted a boycott. Just stop buying and listening to music from the major labels. Every dollar you spend with a label is being used to fund a campaign of legal terror. Merely *enjoying* popular music makes you part of the problem.
Here's what I would say when people told me we should all stop listening to popular music: *"If members of your popular movement are not allowed to listen to popular music, your movement won't be very popular."*
We weren't going to make political change by creating an impossible purity test ("Ew, you listen to music from a major label? God, what's wrong with you?"). I mean, for one thing, a lot of popular music is legitimately *fantastic* and makes peoples' lives better. Popular movements should strive to increase their members' joy, not demand their deprivation. Again, not merely because this is a nice thing to do for people, but also because it's good tactics to make participation in the thing you're trying to do as joyous as possible.
[…] When social media is *federated*, then you can leave a server without leaving your friends. Think of it as being similar to changing cell-phone companies. When you switch from Verizon to T-Mobile, you keep your number, you keep your address book and you keep your friends, who won't even know you switched networks unless you tell them.
There's no reason social media couldn't work this way. You should be able to leave Facebook or Twitter for Mastodon, Bluesky, or any other service and still talk with the people you left behind, provided they still want to talk with you.
That's how the Fediverse – which Mastodon is part of – works already. You can switch from one Mastodon server to another, and all the people you follow and who follow you will just move over to that new server. That means that if the person or company or group running your server goes sour, you aren't stuck making a choice between the people you love who connect to you on that server, and the pain of dealing with whatever bullshit the management is throwing off.
We could make that stronger! Data protection laws like the EU's GDPR and California's CCPA create a legal duty for online services to hand over your data on demand. Arguably, these laws already require your Mastodon server's management to give you the files you need to switch from one server to another, but that could be clarified. Handing these files over to users on demand is really straightforward – even a volunteer running a small server for a few friends will have no trouble living up to this obligation. It's literally just a minute's work for each user.
Another way to make this stronger is through governance. Many of the great services that defined the old, good internet were run by "benevolent dictators for life." This worked well, but failed *so* badly. Even if the dictator for life stayed benevolent, that didn't make them infallible. The problem of a dictatorship isn't just malice – it's also human frailty. For a service to remain good over long timescales, it needs accountable, responsive governance. That's why all the most successful BDFL services (like Wikipedia) transitioned to community-managed systems.
There, too, Mastodon shines. Mastodon's founder Eugen Rochko has just explicitly abjured his role as "ultimate decision-maker" and handed management over to a nonprofit.
I love using Mastodon and I have a lot of hope for its future. I wish I was as happy with Bluesky, which was founded with the promise of federation, and which uses a clever naming scheme that makes it even harder for server owners to usurp your identity. But while Bluesky has added many, many technically impressive features, they haven't delivered on the long-promised federation.
Bluesky sure seems like a lot of fun! They've pulled tens of millions of users over from other systems, and by all accounts, they've all having a great time. The problem is that without federation, all those users are vulnerable to bad decisions by management (perhaps under pressure from the company's investors) or by a change in management (perhaps instigated by investors if the current management refuses to institute extractive measures that are good for the investors but bad for the users). Federation is to social media what fire-exits are to nightclubs: a way for people to escape if the party turns deadly.
So what's the answer? Well, around Mastodon, you'll hear a refrain that reminds me a lot of the Napster wars: "People who are enjoying themselves on Bluesky are wrong to do so, because it's not federated and the only server you can use is run by a VC-backed for-profit. They should all leave that great party – there's no fire exits!"
This is the social media version of "To be in our movement, you have to stop listening to popular music." Sure, those people shouldn't be crammed into a nightclub that has no fire exits. But thankfully, there is an alternative to being the kind of scold who demands that people leave a great party, and being the kind of callous person who lets tens of millions of people continue to risk their lives by being stuck in a fire-trap.
We can install our own fire-exits in Bluesky.
Yesterday, an initiative called "Free Our Feeds" launched, with a set of goals for "billionaire-proofing" social media. One of those goals is to add the long-delayed federation to Bluesky. I'm one of the inaugural endorsers for this, because installing fire exits for Bluesky isn't just the right thing to do, it's also good tactics.
Here's why: if a body independent of the Bluesky corporation implements its federation services, then we ensure that its fire exits are beyond the control of its VCs. That means that if they are ever tempted in future to brick up the fire-exits, they won't be able to. This isn't a hypothetical risk. When businesses start to enshittify their services, they fully commit themselves to blocking anything that makes it easy to leave those services.
[…]
We can do better than begging people to leave a party they're enjoying; we can install our own fucking fire exits. Sure, maybe that means that a lot of those users will stay on the proprietary platform, but at least we'll have given them a way to leave if things go horribly wrong.After all, there's no virtue in *software* freedom. The only thing worth caring about is *human* freedom. The only reason to value software freedom is if it sets humans free.
If I had my way, all those people enjoying themselves on Bluesky would come and enjoy themselves in the Fediverse. But I'm not a purist. If there's a way to use Bluesky without locking myself to the platform, I will join the party there in a hot second. And if there's a way to join the Bluesky party from the Fediverse, then god*damn* I will party my ass off.
https://dustycloud.org/blog/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/
Yeah, I do think Doctorow has missed the mark here. @tante put it better than I could:
Well put, thanks
There is also second part of this article (a response to BlueSky response): https://dustycloud.org/blog/re-re-bluesky-decentralization/
Thank you for this, very interesting. I skimmed through it
as i wrote in another thread:
Where are the relay and PDS not operated by Bluesky that people can use to register today?
Exactly. There's been *far* too much talk about the *theoretical* benefits of AT Proto's decentralization. Until we see it actually happening at small scales manageable by independent operators, it's nothing more than vaporware. And I don't understand why some other group raising millions of dollars has to prove it out. You could set up decentralized Mastodon instances that all talk to each other, like, 7 years ago. And that didn't require millions of dollars.
i'm not aware of anybody who allows public signups and is interoperating with bsky.app yet (besides Bridgy Fed which will create an ATP identity for your ActivityPub identity), but I'm pretty sure it is possible because I follow people there who appear to be doing it for themselves.
see also my reply to you in another thread.
I just skimmed through it. Damn, and people say that the Fediverse concept of instances is confusing 😄
Let's keep it short: once people will be able to register on a version of the platform (whatever piece of the PDS, DID, Relay that means) managed by other people then Bluesky, than trust towards ATProto will be higher.
As of now, it's very low.
Also, see the issue of the ATProto scalability in another comment: https://feddit.org/post/6858224/4156121
It's a good point. At the moment there us one relay so you don't have a choice, add more in and the issue with which instance to sign up on (a stick used to beat AP) also applies to AT. In fact, the wealth of Fediverse instances might make it easier as there will, eventually, be a range of topic-specific instances.
I'd like to interject here for a second and point out that "Billionaire-proofing XYZ" is both a praxis and narrative we should be doing way more often. Forget about socialising healthcare, just billionaire-proof it.
Unless ATProto is fully open and has been proven to be operable for a relay that's community-maintained, this largely smells like yet another "make the community endlessly chase the tail of corporate" scheme, which tracks well since from what I'm reading the people behind this are a bunch of AIbros and... Mozilla, who apparently enjoy endlessly chasing Chrome's tail.
And in the end, endless tail chasing in IT leads to justabout the same thing we saw XMPP Googlification lead: death.
I feel like a lot of what "Free Our Feeds" is trying to achieve has already been done by @snarfed.org@snarfed.org with @bsky.brid.gy@bsky.brid.gy. Supporting Bridgy in order to make all Bluesky accounts open for bridging by default would leap us pretty fast towards achieving these goals, by making any microblogging platform on the fediverse a genuine alternative.
Instead they need $30 million to develop yet another thing.
If Bluesky users want to fund this, it should at least safeguard that Bluesky remains committed to leaving AT Proto running. As long as they keep that running, a bridge between the Fediverse and Bluesky remains possible. Which is all I personally need, so it's all fine by me.
But what a waste of $30 million it would be.
There is still an active debate about whether Bridgy Fed should be opt-in or opt-out. As far as I can tell, however, they are working on implementing instance-level opt-in, meaning Gargon would have the ability to automatically enable bridging for mastodon.social users.
That's on the Mastodon side - having bluesky opted in by default would be less problematic, and would solve a lot of problems. The main reason it's not done yet is for reasons of scale.
People here are satisfied with using the ActivityPub services and content with slow growth of a now sustainable but relatively small user group.
The people who want to use bsky just want a better Twitter. And bsky has delivered that. If that's temporary, it's better for them to use it while it lasts because Mastodon is absolutely not what those people using bsky want. Mastodon to them is technically worse than Twitter but something they may settle for if bsky wasn't an option.
Well said
I really don't see how Cory's view of enshittification doesn't also encompass the powerful corporation embracing, extending, and extinguishing their own protocol to close any escape hatch. Especially when the key module is so monolithic and expensive.
They'll make a proprietary update to their relay that conveniently makes it better and faster for their users while making it harder and more expensive for the alternative to keep up. They'll add a special feature, but only build it out for their implementation and not figure out how to backport it to the public spec. Little by little Bluesky and the spec will drift. All while the alternative keeps burning money trying for something that, *while Bluesky is still in the growth mode*, provides no benefit. Eventually they give up or just can no longer be a real alternative, then the VC investors start asking for more and more and more. Corporate money isn't just going to roll over and say "you got us, I guess our investments were just charity".
It's still millionaires saving us from billionaires, which shows how difficult it is to run a relay. If the main Bluesky relay enshittifies and everyone jumps ship Bluesky 2 then that is still a single point of failure, what if the funding dries up or the millionaires get bored? The users would struggle to cover the costs themselves.
It feels like that amount of money could be better spent on adding features (like independent IDs) as well as building better bridges, even the ability to import a Bluesky profile to Mastodon or the *key forks. Forget adding a fire exit and build some escape pods.
The whole piece comes across as... apologetic:
And you get the feeling this isn't the solution he'd have wanted but it at least looks like some.kind of solution so he's prepared to support it, albeit grudgingly.
Building an ActivityPub application (APlication?) that uses AT protocol's PDSs would be pretty interesting. Compatibility would be a nightmare, but I don't see a reason you couldn't have the sign up and data management work like it does on Bluesky (
did:plc
issues aside) and the server side/relay work with APub.It's more like the idea of adversarial interoperability he's talked about in the past, focusing on making the transition to a new platform easier by forcing compatibility between nominally incompatible platforms. The article does imply he thinks that Bluesky *will* enshittify, so our focus as activists of the *good internet* should be on tools to make the inevitable migration easier. I just don't think "Free Our Feeds" is that.
If it is all defined by a standard, you could always have a script that can read the relevant information from a PDS (with you logged in) and import it to a Fediverse account. With bridges you could even keep your following list (followers might be trickier).
Quick aside: Aren't PDSs similar to ActivityPods or Hubzilla's nomadic identities?
And that makes sense to a degree. If we can't get everyone to the Fediverse, we can at least move them to a half-way house where it is much easier to get at the data and so the final move to the Fediverse can be a lot simpler.
Indeed, that's why I like the idea of escape pods, not just fire exits, so people can just flick a switch and get out. Fire exits can get dangerous if everyone rushes for the door when the place burns down.
I am unsure if it is feasible but I'd like a bridge that I suppose is more like a bot. You post on the Fediverse and it updates your posts there, passes over new posts by followers, etc. and vice versa if you are commited to BS. Then if the main end of your pipe is BS and it enshittifies, you change the direction of flow and are now seamlessly on the Fediverse. As both sides work to protocols it feels like you just need a translator between. I know Friendica integrates with BS to some degree, so it may already be doing that.
Bluesky also buys us more time to establish topic specific instances. I feel these would make people's deciding on an instance much easier.
No, I am not convinced because to make it truly decentralised you'd need a number of relays and it just seems too expensive, at the moment (if BS enshittifies and everyone leaves for the new place then it may only be a stop-gap measure). It feels like a waste of time, effort and money but then the history of the Internet is filled with dead ends but we learned something new each time - I've been on FriendsReunited, MySpace, Google+, etc and it's a pain to start afresh each time, why I'd largely checked out before the Fediverse. I suppose I learned to not do that again and try for a "forever home".
I've seen people on BS already nervously promoting their mailing lists as they are concerned about enshittification. I think if we are at that stage it needs a better plan.
Did I miss something? How do you install your own fire exits on somebody else's thing?
He lists examples in the article.
One thing about Cory's books is that there is always some extremely cringe party section with some rather forced romance part screaming "how do you do fellow kids?" even to me, a middle aged guy himself.
The above is also cringe, even though the argument has some (limited) merit. Look, Cory... just admit some rich friend of yours talked you into signing up for this on the last silicon vally party you attended. We all make mistakes like that some time 🤷♂️
I tried to understand what this meant but had a stroke instead.
Maybe you should get checked for a stroke you had before already if you can't parse regular English sentences 😏
How is that relevant to this post?
It wasn't me who used a cringe party metaphor first 🤷♂️
I like this discussion
But at this point we might have to build a second internet
I honestly can't understand how people enjoy Mastodon that much. I can find some 3 or 4 cool things, but I can't find much. There's not only the discoverability thing, but I also wonder how does the timelines can get organised.
Fuck Bluesky and Fuck popular music.
also, Fuck anything predicated on being popular. We can exist without constantly competing for a popularity contest.